[Music]

Jacqui Ward

Welcome to the learning every day, in every way, through play podcast series. My name is Jacqui Ward. I'm the Early Learning Coordinator at the Department of Education and I'm here with my colleague Therese.

Therese Winyard

Hi Jacqui. I'm Therese Winyard. I'm the Transition Adviser here in Early learning.

Jacqui Ward

We're super excited to come together and talk about learning through play, ‘cause Therese and I are both passionate about that and we've developed a podcast series that is all about focusing in on how children are just learning so much through their play, through their everyday experiences and that learning is not only happening when children are attending preschool, school, early childhood services. That learning is actually happening in the home. You know, when you're out visiting the shops or in the everyday kind of routineness of life as well, so this chat really focuses in on recognizing or, making that learning visible for people. And it's also about, you know, making sure families, I guess, feel reassured that that learning is happening in those everyday spaces and helping them to be aware of it so they can support their children in that role.

Therese Winyard

And yes, Jacqui, I like the way you are using the word families, not just parents because you know, anyone supporting their children in their life has really supporting their learning at home. So, this podcast is for the whole family, not just for parents, perhaps for grandparents, for aunts and uncles, older brothers and sisters, the whole family.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, and it's really about celebrating the amazing jobs that families do in creating a great foundation for later life learning and success. You know, it's about including and celebrating all the nurturing, the nourishing, the keeping safe, healthy and well, and all of the learning that's happening in those everyday routines, and most importantly, that idea that families play such a significant and important role in cementing a strong, successful start to life and a strong start to school as well.

Therese Winyard

That's so true. Jacqui. This podcast, the first in the series entitled learning in the everyday, is really about learning at home. It's emphasising that learning doesn't only happen when children are at school or at preschool or at the early childhood setting, that there's so much learning occurring in the home. In early childhood, we talk about families and about parents being the first teachers of their children. So today we're really focusing on recognizing that the learning that comes from all those activities, routines that parents and families do every day with their children.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, for sure. And it doesn't always have to be you know, I think at the, you know, at the moment with all of the learning from home and the pressure on families to support their child's learning and to be active, proactive in doing learning experiences and whatnot. There's actually quite a lot that's happening incidentally and at, there's quite a lot of learning that's happening about maths and English and science and all sorts of things in your everyday routines. You don't have to plan something separate, you can actually just integrate it into your routine.

Therese Winyard

Yeah, that doesn't need to be that time set aside to teach, there's moments all throughout the day when children are learning, and children have already learned so much when they are at home from when they're born. Language learning is a great example I think Jacqui, you know, when all the things that children learn at home, the way that they amaze us with the way that they learn language by being involved in everyday activities at home and all the normal routines that happen in the family. And it never ceases to amaze me the way that children learn through those experiences and pick up that really complex skill of language, which is really such a strong basis, such a strong, important skill to everything that follows at school when they start learning formally at school such, so I think that this podcast is really about reassuring families that even if they don't have that time to sit down and teach their children or run to a schedule, something like school, that their children are learning in lots of ways and that the families can make that fun and they can make it really relevant to their family life as well.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, definitely, and if we think about, you know, some of the learning that happens in those early years, it's all sort of foundational to that future learning. like you said, the language at home, when you talk to your toddler or your pre-schooler, you’re giving examples of how to use language for a range of different purposes, aren't you? When you're saying, you know, giving directions or you're telling a story or your describing things, you're modelling all those sorts of things that's happening throughout what you're doing in your everyday you know, chores of involving children, I guess in something like hanging out the washing, you know, you're, you're getting them to match colours and you can have a little game by creating a pattern. All of those sorts of things.

And I guess one of the things that I wanted to really emphasize, I guess is that, you know, if you're aware that you're having this influence over children's learning when you're doing these sorts of things, then it's important to be pretty purposeful in how you make those decisions around what you do with your child each day. Cause I think first and foremost, you know, as a parent or a carer, a child or children, you think about, well, I need to think about, you know, hygiene and safety and I need to get through all these routines of bath time and mealtimes and all those sorts of things. But if we look at it from another lens or add another layer onto it and say, well, I do have to do all of those things and I do have to think about safety, but you know, buckling my child into the car seat for example, and we're driving along to go from here to there, we can talk about a lot of things that the child is looking at. You know, we can support the learning that's happening at the same time. Or like I said, if a child's having a bath, there's lots of opportunities to explore the properties of water or you know, sing songs and learn about rhymes. And when you know about words that rhyme, you, you have a better chance to read all of a range of different words because you know, you know, sat and cat and mat all rhyme together. So, if you've had that opportunity to engage with some rhyme games and some see in the bath, you've got the opportunity to have that learning more cemented later on.

Therese Winyard

Yeah, and Jacqui, I really liked the way you mentioned about being aware, like families being aware that when they're doing these things that they're actually creating learning situations for their children. And then when you were aware of it, it really increases your motivation and your engagement in that activity as well.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think about that a lot about, you know, I think about Oprah Winfrey and the people that she used to have on her show about, being in the moment, particularly with your children enjoying the now, rather than always worrying about the future. And I think this is a great way to do exactly that, isn't it? Because if you're thinking about, “Oh, what sort of things is my child learning from this bath time?” I'm not worried about hurry up, get this bath time over and done with. I'm actually thinking, “Oh this is a really good investment of my one-on-one time with my child”. Because I know that I'm not only going to end up with a clean child, but I'm also going to end up with a child that's had all of this learning happening.

Therese Winyard

And then while you were aware of it too and engaged so much because you were aware of how important it is, also another key to it is I think to make it fun. And one of the easiest ways to foster children's love of learning is to make it fun. So rather than having, you know, come and sit down and do your learning, integrate it into everyday activities and just routine activities and make it lots of fun. You mentioned some routine activities before Jacqui. One like for example, getting dressed that can be so much fun. You talk and laugh together while you do it. I remember with my children when they were young, I used to deliberately sabotage getting dressed so that it would be really lots of fun and perhaps try to put their legs into the arms of their jumper and, put things on upside down or back to front. They used to love it and laugh and laugh and all the language that came out of it, they were really good on positional language, like upside down, back to front, wrong way round tag at the back. All of that is, you know, learning that really helps them and also encourages their independence cause then they want to show you how to do it the right way.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah. And I think that's a really good example Therese ‘cause I think I know they'd probably be plenty of parents or families listening out there at the moment, going on dress or getting dressed time is a very stressful time for me. You know, if we think about looking at it in a different way and saying, well what, you know, even that idea of thinking about the weather, what types of clothes do we need based on the weather? If it's summer, what do we need to think about? Yeah, maybe we might want to wear a singlet dress, but are we going outside? Are we going to spend some time outside where we get sunburned if you wear that? You know, even all those sorts of conversations, they're problem solving. They're learning about all sorts of weather systems and the learning just goes on and on and on, I think.

Therese Winyard

So much so much learning in all of those situations. And then we're already dressed and we're having breakfast now, Jacqui. And so, we're going to encourage the kids to make their own choices and to think about what they want to eat. Maybe choose from a range and then to get ready themselves, get the peanut butter on the toast themselves, pour their water or their drink or whatever they're having and learning all the competencies that go with that and the confidence that comes from having a go. And if a drink spills, that's okay. Children need to make mistakes and it's really, really important to let them make those mistakes and say, well that's fine, you've been trying, you've had a really good go at that. Let's just clean that up and have another go. Making mistakes is a really important part of learning.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, I agree. And also, I think we've got, you know, the whole idea that you might think, Oh, this is sounding like all these routine things are going to take me a long time. But if a child is having fun and you're having fun, next thing you know it's actually taken you a lot less time than if you're fighting and struggling with a child and trying to get all these things happen. So, it's not just about, you know, acknowledging the learning that's happening along the way, but also trying to make those experiences more pleasant for everyone, I guess all around.

Therese Winyard

And actually, helping the whole family get through the day, because as children develop those skills, they are able to do more of it themselves and it will take less time, less of your time as a parent or a grandparent or whoever you might be supporting this child in their learning.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, so I think in summing up, I guess this podcast series just is all about that idea of just, you know, making the learning visible and you know, seeing that every day in every way, so whether it's the child playing or a routine experience or, something where you acknowledge it's a bit more formal and structured learning, they are learning. And if they learn in a playful, joyous way, it's more likely going to be a more successful experience all around, I guess.

Therese Winyard

That's for sure. Jackie. And so probably might be good to mention what else is going to be covered in the podcast series.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, so we've got the next one coming up, the next episode is called ‘What guides, what and how children learn in the early years’. So really talking a little bit about the learning outcomes that are associated with the early years curriculum and seeing how that's relevant for families to know a little bit about that so they can support their child's learning there.

Then the next episode is all focused in on play-based learning and really explaining that in more detail and how that's actually quite complex thinking and learning happening in play situations. And the next one is all about letting your child take the lead. And again, it's about viewing children as competent and capable and when they, you know, have an interest in something a bit like what you were saying, if they want to make it fun, they're more likely to go deeper and, and be involved, I guess, and engaged more comprehensively in that type of learning.

And the last one is all about supporting families. You know, if you've got a range of different children, how do you support learning across a range of different children or different ages or a group of children? And also, then how do you incorporate, thinking about how it's a bit more holistic, I guess if you're thinking about learning through play, you're not handling subject areas separately. You're actually, you know, looking at learning as an integrated sort of concept. And we're going to unpack that in the last series. So, hope everyone's enjoyed this session and I hope that they will tune into the other episodes.

Therese Winyard

Absolutely Jacqui and those other podcasts series sounds so interesting. I think that it will be wonderful for people to engage in the whole series.

Jacqui Ward

Right. Thanks for chatting.

Therese Winyard

Thanks Jacqui. Bye.

[End of transcript]

[Music]

Jacqui Ward

Welcome to the learning every day in every way through play podcast series for families. My name is Jacqui Ward, I’m the Early Learning Coordinator at the Department of Education, and I am here with my colleague, Sylvana Cham.

Sylvana Cham

Hi everyone. My name is Sylvana and I'm the Preschool Advisor with Department of Education.

Jacqui Ward

This episode that we're focusing in on today is all about talking about what guides, what and how children learn in the early years, ‘cause it’s a little bit different to what happens if we think about the education continuum, it's a little bit different as to what happens in school. So, today's podcast we're going to be discussing the Early Years Learning Framework as it is the mandatory curriculum for early childhood education. And we're going to be exploring how the framework supports teachers to deliver programs which improve learning outcomes for children and support learning in the early years.

And obviously we're also talking about how families can support that type of learning at home, and also connect with the learning that's happening, at your child's preschool or early childhood setting. So, we're also going to look at how this sort of connects in with what happens before children attend school and then how that leads to a strong start in school and how that connects to the learning at school. So, I guess a really good place to start here is exactly what the early years learning framework is and I'm going to throw over to Sylvana to tell us a little bit more about that.

Sylvana Cham

Thanks Jacqui. That is really a great place to start. The early learning framework is actually a national curriculum which was designed to ensure quality and consistency of learning programs for children from birth to five and through to transition to school. It guides and supports teachers to make decisions about how to set up learning experiences and to carefully consider what to teach and how to teach it. The framework has a strong emphasis on play-based learning recognizing that play, itself provides the most stimulus for brain development. And it is actually the best way for children to learn.

It is a set of guiding principles and practices and most importantly, it outlines a set of 5 learning outcomes for children, much like the outcomes which are part of a syllabus document that guide teaching in a school setting. The outcomes reflect and understanding that identity, wellbeing and connection to people and places are important for success in learning. They support social and emotional development and have a strong focus on communication and language including early literacy and numeracy.

Jacqui Ward

Awesome. Well, that's a very good summary of the early years learning framework, Sylvana. Thank you for that. And again, I think it's really important maybe as a parent or someone who cares for young children, you might be saying, well how does that, why is that important to me? The research shows that when children are, when families are engaged in children's learning, children experience better outcomes. So, it is important to know a little bit about that. So that's kind of the next point I guess that we're going to be moving on to is why the early years learning framework is important in children's lives, but also for families to know about it.

As Sylvana mentioned, in early childhood settings, it's important to have a guiding framework to guide learning much like school. There's that curriculum or syllabus that helps ensure learning is focused and consistent for all children and again, it's important for families to have a bit of an awareness of both of those, to know what learning is happening. I know that there's often a lot of interest from families to support children's learning but often a bit of sort of, I guess uncertainty as to how to do that. So hopefully we'll unpack a little bit of that in this podcast series.

Sylvana Cham

Absolutely. Jacqui, as you said, the framework recognizes the importance of educators working in partnership with families to ensure the best learning outcomes for children. This is really a recognition celebration of families as children's first and most influential teachers. And for me as a parent and a teacher, it is something that I always draw on when I'm working with families.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah. And I think you know, another good point to point out there too is that these outcomes of the early years learning framework, are really important in terms of lifelong success too. So, they're not just outcomes that are focused in on learning in those early years, but they're focused in on that idea that there is a creation of positive dispositions, and skills, for children to be learners for life too. And I think that's really important if we think about the outcomes as Sylvana is going to unpack them a little bit now- they're not just relevant for you as a, you know, a two-year-old, a three year old, a four year old or five-year-old. They're actually great skills for life.

Sylvana Cham

That's right. Jacqui, just as you have alluded to, it is really important to recognize those outcomes as lifelong learning outcomes. And that's because learning is so complex and its ongoing and we are always learning and continue to learn throughout life. Early childhood educators plan experiences, thinking about these 5 outcomes all the time and families may be thinking about how to support learning at home every day in every way through play.

I'll give you an example with the focus on literacy, learning. Learning to read and write starts at home with families as everything else does. Children need to hear words before they speak them, say words before they read them and read words before they write them. Each time family members talk and listen to their children and when they share stories with them, when they dance around and sing songs and talk to them about the things that they see, like for example, when they're out shopping or walking through the park and having conversations through day-to-day play, children are learning and developing skills for future reading and writing.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, that's a really good point here. I guess this point of this whole series learning every day in every way through play is really about helping to make learning the learning that's happening in those early years a little bit more visible to families, or to the broader community, I guess. And, and seeing that children are doing more than just, I guess messing around in the sand pit or splashing in the bath is actually a lot of learning that's occurring in brain development that's occurring. And it's really important that we focus in on opportunities to foster that learning.

Some of the other areas that I just wanted to draw out too, cause I know you've touched on there, Sylvana you know, some literacy skills there that are happening in play, but some of the other learning areas within the early years learning framework include things like knowing yourself and being resilient and being in charge of your emotions, your wellbeing and your learning, so those ideas about concepts of self and, and how you create opportunities to solve problems and all those sorts of things. Knowing that unique ways that you learn and experiencing success as a learner, that those are all really important things to do in those early years. And they're all things that are happening all the time in those play situations at home and children are often doing that, you know, automatically by themselves as well. But when we're aware of that, we can foster that learning.

Another one that I've forgotten to mention, there is, is also you know, that focus in on learning about being able to move to be active, learning some of those fundamental skills for sport like running, jumping, catching, bowling and skipping just to name a few. There's a whole lot of learning that happens in those early years that is this the foundation if you like, for learning that happens. The more, I guess that's more visible learning that happens later on in a, in a child's, schooling years and whatnot.

Sylvana Cham

There certainly is, Jacqui, as you've just referred to those skills as foundational skills and sometimes we as educators like to think about laying foundation for future learning and how important it is that the foundation is really strong. Just like any foundation of, of a house, for example. The skills that you've just spoken about are things that parents are working on with children at home just through play, not even thinking about it, they’re the things that early childhood teachers continue to build on when children are in an early childhood setting, and also areas which teachers focus on when children go to school to ensure that they continue to develop skills in different areas of the curriculum. So, when you talk about things like fundamental movement skills that aligns with the learning outcomes in PDHPE syllabus, it's the same with the example of being aware of what makes you healthy, happy, and safe.

In the early years learning framework, we'll refer to the learning outcome of children having a strong sense of identity and then it continues at school and it's also closely connected with the early learning objective in PDHPE. These are great examples of the lifelong learning that we have been talking about throughout this series, learning at home through to early childhood settings and the learning that continues to school and moving beyond.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, well, I hope that's been interesting for everybody to hear a little bit about the early years learning framework and how it guides learning in the early years. We are developing some resources that will be available on the department's website that unpack this a little bit further. So, if you are a little bit interested to see what those five learning outcomes are and how they relate to, a child's learning, you know, in those early years, but also how it connects into the later years, keep your eye out for those. In the next episode we will be looking at play-based learning how to children learn through play. So, unpacking that idea of how the learning is happening in play and how it's happening in an integrated and holistic kind of a way when children are playing. So, look out for the next episode and thank you Sylvana for our chat today.

Sylvana Cham

Thanks, Jacqui, it was great to have a chat about learning through play every day in every way.

[End of transcript]

[Music]

Donna Deehan

Hello, I'm Donna Deehan and I’m the Transition Advisor with the Early learning team. Today, myself and my colleague, Sylvana Cham are going to delve into one of our favourite subjects, play-based pedagogy or play based learning. Sylvana is one of our preschool advisors in the early learning team and I've really been looking forward to having this chat with you, Sylvana.

Sylvana Cham

Hi Donna. I'm also looking forward to this chat. You know how passionate I am about play-based learning.

Donna Deehan

When we think of learning, a lot of people quite traditionally think about being taught something directly or learning in a classroom with a teacher. However, in the early childhood years we focus a lot on play-based learning and how learning for children can be encouraged and extended and sometimes more beneficial through play. So today we'll unpack what we actually mean by play based learning so that families can understand a little more about what is happening for their children when they play. And of course, why preschools are generally really strong advocates for this and why it takes, play takes such a large part of the day for a child at preschool. Some people still sort of grapple with the idea of this, um, pedagogy or this style of learning being referred to as play-based, and as we know, it can fall within many other descriptions including inquiry-based learning or project based learning. Um, so it's important to understand that the description may vary.

Sylvana Cham

You're very right Donna. Some schools, as you say, actually do use a number of those terms including age-appropriate pedagogy, investigative play and inquiry-based learning. All those types of learning actually require children to learn while involved in play-based experiences. For me as a teacher, a parent, and particularly in my role as an auntie to many young nieces and nephews, I often find myself trying to explain to parents I know, that their children are always learning and that really the best way to learn is by doing something, having the opportunity to have a go, to investigate, to explore, and that is what children are actually doing through play. Children learn so much when they're involved in play. It allows them to discover how things work and make sense of things like the way which to hold a book, when reading for example, or how to hold a pencil for drawing and then writing, they have a go at doing things and they take risks and solve problems without really worrying about anything.

All those things are really important foundations for developing literacy, numeracy, and social skills. It's not really any different to how an adult learns to use a brand-new mobile phone. I don't know about you Donna, but I don't really know anyone who reads a manual from a brand-new mobile phone to learn how to use it. They just pick up the phone, switch it on, start playing with it and learn all the new features, what it does, what it doesn't do and what they do and don't like from it.

Donna Deehan

Absolutely. Sylvana. I mean that's the first thing we do, don't we, to get a phone or a device and I know I'm, I'm one for not reading the manual and I guess it's how we gain an understanding of, of how it works or how things work, how to mess it up maybe and learn from that trial and error and the making the mistakes. And, and of course then we, we always fuss around with our phones, how we like it to be like on the what, what you want in lock screen photo to be or that sort of thing. So there's, so thinking back to children's play, there's some sort of different ways that children play.

Sometimes children will play but completely uninterrupted. Sometimes the play can be very child led. Sometimes it is scaffold scaffolded, sorry, by adults, whether intentionally or not, sometimes we pop into play, and we'll direct it a bit. Sometimes it just might happen by being asked for help, and of course the children can play solitary or parallel besides somebody or in cooperative play. Other ways of engaging in play. Of course, having playing to routine times of the day, you know, say maybe, who can pack up their toys fastest or things like that. And examples from parents own experiences they can, things that they enjoyed, they can bring into the play with children. And while that's happening, of course there's all sorts of learning going on. There's a few examples I can think back to with my own kids. One of them was my son was helping a plumber dig and install piping in our small town and the plumber was there for a week and he was a very patient man. And I've watched my son play beside him, and I could look at it with a parent lens rather than a teacher lens.

Donna Deehan

It was just really amazing, and I was watching my son laying pipes and helping to measure and, and playing with the tools that the plumber let him play with and to any sort of observer of watching it was, it was really like he was playing, but there was so much more going on with problem solving and I guess early math skills and he was just doing it in his own way, in his own capacity. And I also remember a time with my daughter when I was studying, and she'd sit beside me with the computer. So, we had an old box and we made a weird looking computer. It was, I had an old Apple IIE, and you know, we drew a, like a screen and a keyboard and whatnot and the play that play situation created for her just sort of extended into all sorts of different play like, you know, doctors surgery in a hospital and all this. So, her dramatic skills just took full flight.

So, I guess my point is that as a parent, if we, we can miss these opportunities for learning, even when you're a teacher, you still have those parent sort of glasses on and you can see what's going on and, and try not to miss those opportunities for learning through play.

Sylvana Cham

I totally agree with you Donna. They're great examples that you've just given as a mother of two children are often grappled with the notion of my role as a parent, as a mother. And really my role as a teacher was almost like I had to wear two hats. It took me a while to adjust when I first became a mum. I knew that every interaction I had with my children was a learning moment. And I wondered if I should take on more of a formal teacher role as they grew a little older with them, but looking back now I know really that the best thing I ever did to help my children learn was wearing the hat of a mother because we know that the first and most influential teachers of children are family members and we'd never want to take that away from anybody.

I always remind other adults in my life about this actually, particularly my sisters with their young children, try and give them examples like the fact that children are learning about literacy when we talk to them or when we listened to them and when they're listening to our conversations with others and the way that we talk with others when we're singing songs together or reading books together or telling stories about special occasions or talking about something that they've drawn or painted or made with Play-Doh.

It's just those really simple interactions that they're having with their children every single day and the interactions that we have with my nieces and nephews every single day and how important they are for learning. These are the things that provide the foundation to learning when they go to school. So I try and unpack it a bit further and tell them they need to know how to listen to speak before they can read and write. And in fact the language they bring from home, be it English or a language other than English actually strengthens their learning at school.

Donna Deehan

Oh, definitely Sylvana. With the beginnings of language, no matter what the language, I mean, each time we read a story, we're demonstrating the fundamentals, like which way it book is held and you know, which way the pages are turned. They sound like really simple everyday tasks, but, I think as parents it's important we understand that they're laying foundations, you know, for as you said, learning at school. And of course, this sort of learning will extend into activities, at home, like cooking, just modelling, reading recipes and the idea that that print has meaning and magazines around the home and books. Looking at signs in the community. Of course, when you're driving in the car, uh, continually gives that message, that print, in any form holds important information and they're the, they're the real foundations of the beginning literacy and I guess as parents, if we have an understanding about some of the outcomes in early childhood, or the early years of school, we can begin to see that learning's going on in everyday activities, not that those outcomes, you know, that we need to as parents understand that the complex side of that, that's definitely the teacher and educators job.

But just a bit of an idea of what we are doing in everyday situations is that there is learning happening. Everything we do has an element of learning and I always revert back to that idea that you mentioned earlier that, that what we do as adults when we get a new phone or in fact anything new, we play with it to understand that.

Sylvana Cham

Absolutely Donna and that's why preschool teachers plan all learning experiences through play. They know it's the best way for children to learn and how important it is for brain development. It's important for our listeners to know this as is a really key point that I try and drive with families in our preschools. I often had parents come into preschool every year, something that I know I'm going to expect where parents ask me about when I'm going to teach their children because all they do at preschool all day is play. It's just something that I know is going to happen annually and then parents are really, they're usually just worried about their children being ready for big school, but once we've explained that learning is happening during play, it tends to put their mind at ease.

I'll give you an example that I like to use. The reason I like this example is because lots of children have puzzles at home and they have puzzles at preschool and I really value the opportunity for play and the learning that happens through puzzles because when children do a puzzle, it's an opportunity to explore concepts like patternmaking, problem solving, numerical math, mathematical concepts such as part and whole.

Also, a great opportunity for children to learn how to persist with a task until it's completed. Plus, when we sit with children and talk to them about the pieces and where they might fit and how we'll do the edge before we do the rest of it and what the picture might look like when it's all together. All those conversations that we have with children, who are completing a puzzle, are great ways of helping them to develop language skills. So, these are all things that are part of school readiness.

Donna Deehan

Yeah, sure. And that's great advice for families who feel like they aren't as confident with the learning through play idea. The thing is that in any situation that involves playing with their children, it's more than likely there's already a learning experience happening there. You know, it's, it's likely that it's, even if you're not thinking of it as that, that there's definitely some learning going on right back from babies playing peek-a-boo with you. You know, that hide and seek and all that sort of stuff. And if, if parents and carers sort of take a moment to think back to their own childhood and what they enjoy playing with that's likely to spark that interest to begin the same with their own child.

Sylvana Cham

Sure is Donna. I know if I think back to my childhood games and my memories of hide and seek and dress ups and my favourite was really role playing with my siblings. These are the things that were also my favourites with my children and the things that my children enjoyed playing with.

Donna Deehan

Yeah, sure. Look, it's been really lovely to chat with you today about this Sylvana and um, I hope everybody's enjoyed listening to us today. Um, as early childhood educators, we've always recognized that parents and carers are the child's first teacher. As you mentioned earlier, Sylvana, it's an important role. It's not always sort of as helping laying the foundations for learning, but that is exactly what's going on.

Sylvana Cham

Absolutely, Donna. It really is an important role. You and I both as parents know just how important that role is and really, we know there's just so much learning that is going on at home with parents, with extended family members, and with children every single day through any interaction. I've really enjoyed chatting with you about this today, Donna. Thank you.

Donna Deehan

Thanks, Sylvana, and thanks everyone for listening.

[End of transcript]

[Music]

Jacqui Ward

Welcome to the Learning every day in every way through play podcast series. My name is Jacqui Ward and I'm the Early Learning Coordinator at the Department of Education and I'm here with my colleague Donna.

Donna Deehan

Hi everybody.

Jacqui Ward

Donna Deehan is the Transition Advisor at the Department of Education and we're going to be talking in this episode about letting your child take the lead. So really this episode is all about the way we view young children, it's about seeing them as capable, competent thinkers and learners. It's about the fact that, you know, acknowledging that young children actually think differently to adults. They're concrete thinkers, which means they learn through doing and they're also capable of holding many ideas in the front part of their brain, which as we get older, we can no longer do. So, it's about, I guess, keeping that in mind when you are supporting your children in learning at home and knowing that, that they're thinking differently to you, and giving them opportunities, I guess to be their natural selves in their learning. Also, I guess that's also acknowledging that they can keep those ideas, as I said, in the front of the brains, which means that they can think really creative and connect ideas.

Donna Deehan

Yeah, Jacqui. And there's a lot of information out there about the importance of playing and interacting with children that, you know, when families have competing priorities and they're trying to juggle, just life in general, it's important to understand that the learning's happening with their children even when they're engaged in their own play without the adult or the family member. Yeah. It's good to understand how you can actually encourage this.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, and I think that's really the point of this whole series too. It's about making learning visible. So, families can see that, even though they might be busy doing a whole lot of different things themselves, they can see that that learning is happening for that child. And maybe it's an occasional comment or a bit of encouragement that supports that learning. So, we're going to really sort of unpack that, you know, how are children learning when they're just playing on their own? And again, it's about acknowledging that they're not just less clever versions of adults, but really about people who think and learn in a different way. So, what does that mean for you as a parent in supporting that learning at home and you know, allowing children to take the lead? Also being able to let them sort of direct the type and depth of learning that happens in their play.

Jacqui Ward

I think sometimes as adults we often think that we need to take charge and we need to sort of order and sequence things in ways that take all of those opportunities for that sort of in-depth, self-directed learning away from children. This podcast is really about that, you know, letting children explore and experience a wide range of different things and, taking that more of an observer role I guess, in seeing what learning is happening and what children are interested in and following that up with them in different ways.

Donna Deehan

Yeah. I mean, you know, when, when children are playing on their own, it opens up a huge sort of range of opportunities because they become really engrossed and quite deep in their play when they're on their own. They've got to rely on them on their own sort of engagement and input. They get, they get to make errors and they can drop things, change things, fix and adjust things. They can move their equipment or their toys exactly where they need them to be on.

Look I guess a great example of this would be when a child's say got something like a toy, or a truck in the mud and there's no one there to guide what happens with that. Just the child. So if the truck slips or the car, whatever, then they've got to fix it themselves. If it tips over, they've got to create, you know, a bit that might hold it up. And it's the same, in something like artwork. We're mixing colours and these are things that can just be happening at home all the time. Like who's to say that the hill should be green, and the sky is blue, with the child playing there on their own, there's no limit to their imagination or the colours that could be discovered.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, and I love that example where you talk about the, the truck example there, Donna, because I think this is a really good example where I like to unpack, that's actually a child learning a little bit about, you know, engineering and technology and physics, where you go, well why did it slip and what do I need to do to make changes? You know, and children will often automatically build up a ramp realizing that that's not stable enough foundation, or they need to change the angle of elevation, so there's all sorts of learning that's happening when they're engaging in play on their own. And of course, that wraps back to things like when you learn at formal schooling, you learn about angles and trigonometry and all those sorts of things. So, there's lots of things that's happening in that learning for children and when we allow them to explore and investigate their ideas and things they're interested in, they tend to be much more engaged in the learning as you pointed out.

Jacqui Ward

I know for me, if someone wants me to do something that I'm not keen on as opposed to, you know, can I put my name down for a project that I'm really interested in, my level of engagement is quite different. And I think that's the same for children. So instead of the, you know, the learning being a chore, it's interest based and it's experiential and children are really immersed in that and it's a key factor I think in having a strong start to school and, and children being confident and leading their own learning so they know themselves as a learner and they know themselves as has being able to have influence in their world, I guess.

Donna Deehan

Yeah. I guess just again, just on that truck example, which is a good one because I think families can sort of picture that happening at any point at home- it’s allowing for the mastering of those skills that you're talking about Jacqui, which is what they do through experimenting. Do you know if there was an adult there, the adult might fix that issue or sort of say, you know, I can put this, if I help you push this bit of mud up here, it'll make a, you know, your truck won't slip or whatever, but without that adult intervention that the child's sort of only limited by themselves so that they can take their own learning, they can take a lead and their experiences in any direction they wish.

So, I guess, you know, you can look at it as accidental learning. Even though from a psychological point of view, of course it's, it's quite different delving into that, but the accidental learning that's going on is just amazing. You know, learning about the different textures, why one is more slippery than the other. With the adult, if they're leading that, the child certainly doesn't get that deeper level of taking on board, you know, how much dirt do I need or why does it change when I had dry dirt or they that it comes right back to their own hands-on experience.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, yeah, I agree there. I would probably call it incidental learning and I think that incidental learning is some of the most complex learning that that children are going to get. And again, it's when that's that child led learning through play, there's some of the things that we associate with that future focus learning and those 21st century skills. We want children to be, you know, critical thinkers. We want them to be able to problem solve. We want them to be engaging with science, technology, engineering and maths. And these are some examples of what you're doing there. You know, when you talked about those states of matter with the dirt, that's chemistry in action there, you know and again, as children naturally experiment, investigate and research how and why things work.

A classic example is when children ask why, and they ask it over and over and over and they do things, and they repeat actions. That's them, you know, as you said, mastering skills and investigating and you know, they ask ‘why’ again and again and again. And when you give an answer and they're trying to process and fit those pieces together and what they've learned before, it may be annoying as a parent at the time to, you know, keep answering that why question. But again, it's such a, it's such a worthwhile and meaningful learning that's happening incidentally, all throughout the day.

Donna Deehan

Yeah. And you know, we need to, it's that continual why, why, why. Children are solidifying their skills as they learn, and they lead their learning through play, and they need those chances. They need to continually ask why or how, so that they can ‘bank’ for want of a better word. They can bank on their skills they learned the prior day or before. Um, I, I look, I always think about the, a good example of a child packing their bag when you're talking about early numeracy skills or the, you know, when things don't fit into your bag in the morning, we can do it the same as adults. We want to shove it in, and in the family morning rush always that we want to fix things for the kids and not giving them a sort of to do those everyday activities.

Donna Deehan

And look, I've had a laugh at some of the memes that are on social media today about adults stuffing their luggage with determination into overhead lockers on planes and all that sort of stuff when we have a good giggle about it. But it came right back to the beginning of learning these sorts of skills. A child who problem solves that- how to pack their lunch box and their drink bottle and all that into their preschool backpack. The is immense problem-solving skills going on there. There's lots of trial and error. They're developing things like patience and it's quite a skilled thought process. And transferring that into all their other skills, leading into learning and throughout their schooling and then again into adult life.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, definitely. And, and I'll come back to that. I thought a bit of an example of that, you know, the repetition is children make sense of their world and make connections between things. I've got a really good example of that with my own son when he was about two and one day when he was just playing by himself, and he lined up all of the animals that we had. I didn't realize we had so many toy animals, but we had, you know, like little plastic ones. We had stuffed toy versions and he was lining them all up, standing them up until he got to some stuffed toys that he couldn't make stand up on his own. So, he then started lying them down and then he went back and changed all of the animals to be in that same anatomical position.

And I remember even to this day thinking, you know, what great learning was happening there for him as a two-year-old, knowing about things like engineering, not being able to get something to stand up on its own cause it didn't have the strength thing. You know, he tried a few times but then he couldn't do it. And the idea of position and patterning, you know, which are all really important skills for numeracy and maths.

Donna Deehan

Absolutely. And look, if you think about that example, Jacqui, imagine if, you know, you'd intervened and took the lead away from his... what he's playing. But we can see the learning happening and the outcome could have been completely different. And often sometimes when we've interfered to a degree, and we take that leading of their own learning away the outcome changes children's and sometimes just walk away and lose interest.

So, I guess for parents and families at home, you can use those questions and queries to set up an area to let the child engage. It's just sort of leading their learning where they're sort of heading. It can be something like water in a tub if you had questions about that sort of thing and some food colouring, sort of setting up some of those steps and look, oftentimes that's not even needed. Obviously, those other couple of examples, you don't really need to set up anything to let them to go off and explore. But if, if it calls for it, you can set up, there's no right or wrong in any of this and the experimentation could just take on its own adventure.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, and I think you raised a really good point there because I think sometimes, we think children need a lot of toys and things to play with and you know, we need to set out things or present things that we're going to teach them and have them engage with. But you know, I think that often takes away, that imagination and creativity of when you've got those, you know, resources where children have the opportunity to paint as you said, to play with playdough or to mess around with old, recycled boxes, all those sorts of things. They're getting the opportunity to think about the way they put things together and the way they represent ideas and all sorts of different things.

Donna Deehan

Absolutely. And it's just supporting that development of creativity. You know, if the child has the interest there, there might be diggers in the street, there might be some work going on the street and, the adult can create the beginnings of that scene or just sit back and let the child, you know, the child can pick up anything. It could be a rock or something. Jacqui, as you were saying, and then, and use that for their digger that's in their street or something. It's just sort of being aware that that's going on. And, you can you level fostering that sort of creativity.

I think it's just knowing when to stand back a bit and when to, to let it fall into its own learning. But also on this note, I think sometimes we forget this. It's extremely good for child's creativity to feel bored or there's nothing wrong with feeling bored with brain development, it means that the child has to continually process something if it's always entertained and always has to have a thought pattern. However, if we, if we give the child some space, you know, nothing to sort of think about or do, then a natural process is for their mind to begin thinking creatively. It just happens. Innately, they'd begin to think, and they can think unencumbered and without any other direction.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with you there. And I think we tend to do that more so than ever now in our current world, we give children's screens a lot, thinking that that's the thing that they need. We'll put a video on, and we'll put, you know, play a game or all those sorts of things where, you know, you can actually have that, that downtime. And what children will do is, is they will find creative things to do. And I think that's, you know, comes back to what I said before about the idea of providing open-ended resources. So again, that children can do a range of different things with, if we think about, you know, when you're watching a movie, it's a very passive activity as opposed to if I give a child a whole bunch of egg cartons, toilet rolls and, and you know, boxes and things and I give them some glue or some tape and things, all of a sudden now they're, they're having to do a whole lot of different thinking than they would just doing something a bit more passive.

Jacqui Ward

So that's something to think about. It's not just about toys, but it's also if the toys that you do have that are a little bit more open ended, like for example, there's the, you know, there's the LEGO show on TV now and I have a little giggle and I think about how much time my own children loved building and playing with LEGO because you can create so many different things with that. Yes, there are those little packs where you can buy and you can make set things, but for the most part they can build a whole lot of different things. They might build a dinosaur, they might build a house, they might build a bridge, all those sorts of things.

So having a think about you know, setting up some interesting place spaces for children that sort of, we call it in, you know, as educators’ provocations, but it's a fancy word for that. Some interesting things that children might have a creative thought or an idea or a bit of inspiration by, you know, so thinking about reducing the amount of things as well. I think, you know, a lot of children now have a lot of toys and things that they have to play with. So just maybe refining that and offering fewer choices but different things you know, regularly.

Donna Deehan

Yeah, that's right. Just things that are going on in the household. It can be as simple as say, there could be an older sibling that's studying for their HSC and doing a particular project and the younger child has a bit of an interest, you know, sticky beaking over their shoulder or something. And that could lead off with a bit of a, as you mentioned, a bit of a provocation or something to, inspire a bit of learning about that. It could also be as simple as a bunch of flowers arriving at the house and the child shows interest and maybe mentions the colours or something and then the adult in the house can just provide some paints and you know, just leave that to the child and see what comes from them.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah. And I think one thing we haven't really spoken too much about is to the idea of just being outside and engaging and exploring nature. You know, just even in the local park or even the tree that's on the footpath in front of someone's house. There's lots and lots of things that children quite naturally gravitate towards in nature. You know, looking at and exploring shadows, the leaves rustling in the trees, the birdlife, or the sounds in the environment. You know, there's whole lot of different learning that's happening in that outdoor space as well of course. As well as the physical things like, you know, kicking a ball and catching a ball. Those are all important things to contribute towards other types of learning, not just physical activity types of learning.

Donna Deehan

Yeah, for sure. It's also important that any sort of toys or things you're providing gets changed around and we don't overwhelm children with one particular thing or a whole load of stuff. Cause we want their motivation and their interest to still be inspired -and it's quite a good idea to pack away things at times. It allows for children to revisit that toy or activity as they may have developed some new skills during the time in between. You know, they might've known new colours, or they might understand a bit more about inclines and ramps referring to our truck tracking the mud earlier. And that might completely change how they interact, excuse me, with a familiar or an older toy. Again, that brings me back to that in-between time of a child feeling bored. And I know you mentioned that the LEGO that's on the television at the moment, Jacqui, but if a child sort of has a play around with that, then they've got some space in between and they might go and develop some other skills or strengthen their fine motor skills.

And when they come back to that, there's another whole creation that can run off from that. If you've been doing a painting with a child, you know, you could extend that, and you might just offer them some other materials to play with. It could be leaves or sticks or forks. And that's something, again, that can happen outside. That's a lot about watching, watching the child, children responding and knowing when to step back and let them involve themselves in their play.

Jacqui Ward

And I think that's a really great way to wrap it up. You know, great message about letting your child take the lead in their play and their learning. So, thanks, Donna for our chat today. I think that was great. Lots of good ideas. Yeah, definitely. Ways to support learning every day in every way through play.

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[Music]

Jacqui Ward

Welcome to the learning every day in every way through play podcast series. We're talking today about how to support learning within the family and across all learning areas. My name is Jacqui Ward, and I am the Early learning coordinator with the Department of Education. And I'm here talking with my colleague Therese.

Therese Winyard

Hi Jacqui. Yes, I'm Therese Winyard. I'm the Transition Advisor in Early learning and it's lovely to be here to talk about this important topic.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, it's, it's really tricky when you've got, you know, lots of different children or you're trying to concentrate on trying to support children's learning in a variety of different ways to think about how do I bring it all together. So, this episode is really focused in on that. That it's about family supporting their children's learning from home. And, and sometimes, as I said, engaging those multiple children. It's helpful for us to see how different learning areas can get combined. So the one experience can be teaching a whole range of different things and how different learning across different age groups can be supported at the same time through everyday home activities. And also, we're going to touch a little bit about how older children and younger children can support each other in their learning as well. So, it doesn't always have to be led by the adults.

Therese Winyard

Yeah, that's so true. Jacqui. When we're talking about families here, we're talking about the whole family, aren't we- about older siblings, about grandparents, about aunties and uncles. But in this one particularly, I think we are looking at the way siblings and older siblings can be involved and learning through that themselves as well as helping the younger ones to learn. But all families are different and sometimes multiple siblings, all learning at different ages and Stages families can see that as how am I ever going to manage to do all this learning with these children? Some families might even have English as another language, Jacqui, or they may have children learning with a difficulty learning or with a disability. So, there's lots and lots of different challenges can be thrown into the mix of lots of families out there. So, this podcast looks at how families can really support the learning across all those ages, all those abilities, all those Stages.

Therese Winyard

And many home activities that really support sophisticated concepts and learning from early childhood right through to a more formal school curriculum. So all at the same time, as you said, Jacqui. So everyday learning really bundles up, all that learning from all different areas into one real learning experience and the sophisticated learning that comes from that can be quite amazing sometimes. I think it's a bit like that John Lennon song Jacqui where he says life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans. Sometimes I think it's a bit like learning is what happens in families while you're busy doing your daily things.

Jacqui Ward

Definitely. I definitely think I've referred to it in some of the other episodes as incidental learning. It's happening while, you know, things are going on and if you're not necessarily aware of it, you don't necessarily make the few tweaks and say the few supportive things or you know, guide children or provide the right experiences if you didn't know that learning was happening. So that's kind of the point of this whole series, isn't it? The idea of making learning visible. So, you know, it's something that's happening, and you know, that it's chugging away while all of the chores are getting done.

Therese Winyard

Yeah. Appreciating that learning while it's happening and understanding how adults' reactions or older children's reactions really support that learning further and encourage it and, you know, make the learning even more worthwhile. That awareness is really so important, I think.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah. And I think it really comes back to some of the things that we talked about in our very first episode about making it fun and making it engaging. You know, children like to see and do things that they see other family members doing. You know, the idea that they want to play with the real keys rather than the plastic toy keys or they want to, when they're younger, they want to help with cooking and chores and things because they're interested in those every day kind of experiences because those are the experiences that help them to learn the skills that they need to be, you know, successful and functioning in their life as they, as they progress. So, it's a real motivating factor I guess for children to be involved in that.

And quite often this is where we see a little bit of that competition with siblings too, isn't it, that the younger child wants to do the same thing as the older child, or the older child wants to do something that the younger child is doing because that's where we can see it's quite obvious that the siblings are learning from each other. So, it's important to make that consideration, I guess. And I did want to say a little something too there and I am not sure. I think you might be going to say a little bit further on, so I apologize. But just even the idea that you mentioned about, you know, if families speak another language, so it's a really good opportunity I think for children to learn some of these concepts and learn this language at home if they don't already speak it. Maybe they're good at listening to their home language but not necessarily speaking what a great opportunity to use this learning from home platform for children to learn their language but also learn the things that we're talking about here as in measurement and directions and things in their home language as well.

Therese Winyard

Definitely Jacqui, I think families are becoming so, so much more aware of the value of talking to children in their home language if they have another language and what a wonderful gift to give to your children that they can actually function in that language as well as English. So, you know, it's appreciating the value of using your home language when you're talking with your children, when in their everyday activity. So, it's a really important thing. And a really wonderful thing to be able to do if you have that ability.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, that's right. And even, you know, there's always a lot of concern I think for families that, have English as, you know, as their second language to think, “Oh no, I'm really keen for my children to learn English”, which of course that is important. And they will do that when, you know, when they attend their preschool or their school, but they can actually at that younger age, manage learning both languages so easily at that time. So, it's a great opportunity to do that. And even if you don't have, if you’re growing up in a family where you don't have a second language, it's still a really good time to, learn another language because of the way the brain works.

Therese Winyard

Absolutely. Jacqui, it's such an incredible age of learning in that early Stages and especially for language, it's just amazing the way the children learn it and their families are able to give that gift to their children as well. What a wonderful opportunity as you say.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, and I think we did get a little side-tracked there, but I did want to sort of reinforce that idea. Bring it back to the podcast, I think it was in the last episode where we talked about this whole sort of series is underpinned by our image of the child. So, we think about children as being capable and competent. So if we add that together with learning through routines and we support children to do things for themselves and to get involved in cooking or you know, sorting out the washing or whatever it might be, chores that we might traditionally think are, you know, not something that young children might be able to do, then we're actually supporting them to know themselves as capable and confident as well as, you know, all those learning and of course being then well equipped, if you learn how to cook when you're a young person that stays with you for your whole life, you now know how to cook meals for yourself as an adult.

Therese Winyard

Cooking is just such a fantastic example, Jacqui. It's sort of a can be a planned activity or it's something that really happens in most houses every day. It's all about maths and science and language and reading. And at the end of it you get something to eat as well. And the family's being fed. I think engaging children in cooking really allows you to involve all the children from all the different ages at their different levels. But there's also strong cultural connections and, and getting used to a traditional food, that the family usually makes. And there's links to understanding good nutrition as well and eating well, really, really important things for later in life as well as really important learning now and makes, you know, concepts in maths and language and science really real. For example, in maths you having to weigh all the ingredients and measure them, looking at the capacity and the numbers, the fractions, you know, all of that sort of thing.

Therese Winyard

And what about science? All the science in cooking. So, when we're cooking, we're getting perhaps melting some butter and we're changing states from solid to liquid or boiling. And what temperature does it boil at? It's also about chemistry and chemical reactions. It's a wonderful learning opportunity cooking. It's great that you mentioned that one. And so how do we make cooking activity relevant to a really young child and maybe to an older child, for example, a child in year four at the same time. As you said before, Jacqui, each child really takes understandings and skills from the activity at their own level. So, the younger child may be learning about the cup and how many cups of something has to go in while the older child might be really focusing on the actual measures of it, the 250 ml measure or you can sometimes make it a bit more challenging and maybe the recipe requires a 750 mLs of something and you can only find the 250 mL cup. So, the older child needs to work out all the maths to work out how, how many cups to put in.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, that's a really good point. I was thinking the same thing. You know, if it requires one cup, you could say, well, what are the different combinations we could do? If you've got a third of a cup, a quarter of a cup, you know, you can get an older child doing, well how many of these will we need to make one cup if it's a quarter cup. There's lots of different ways to mix it up. And again, if the child's even younger than sort of preschool age, you know, they might be the ones that are helping to put it into the mixer or whatever it is. You know? So, it's a, it's a great opportunity to do both, isn't it, to integrate different children in the one experience with learning and differentiate the learning within it. And it's also an opportunity to cover off on a range of subject or content areas as well.

Therese Winyard

Yeah, it's a really good example. Cooking and arranging the food. You know, it's one of the world's most important art forms, I think. Jacqui,

Jacqui Ward

That is true. I do wish I had a few more plating skills myself, but it's very, very fashionable now isn't it? With all the cooking shows to present food beautifully. Yeah. A good opportunity to be a bit creative and imaginative.

Therese Winyard

Yeah. So it's got everything in there, but it's not just planned activities either. Is it Jacqui?

Jacqui Ward

It could be things like, you know, you just watching the news and it's about looking at the weather forecast for tomorrow and we're working out what we, what we'll need to wear. I know today at my house it was quite chilly. Wasn’t expecting it? That wind-chill factor was a bit high, so it was a very cold day. So, you know, you can think about whether or not, we think that the prediction that was given, you know, the night before on the news was accurate the next day. And you can compare the data, you could be tracking it and charting it. If it has the little cloud over the sunshine, was it cloudy and sunny? Again, that's a great way to differentiate it for older and younger children. The older child could be tracking the data and recording it.

Jacqui Ward

The younger child could be just, you know, be the one that reports on whether or not the sun was out or the clouds were there or you know, talking about the language that meteorologists use, cold fronts and wind direction and you know, even just even if you don't know the answers to those things, good opportunity to look those answers up and, and why does the wind move things around or how does that work? How do wind currents work and all those sorts of things? And again, an older child could be the researcher, the younger child could be posing the questions, all of those sorts of things. Thinking about if that's something that they're interested in, how do you become a meteorologist, and would that be something that they would like to do? It's a great opportunity to explore opportunities for future careers in these sorts of experiences as well, if children are taking an interest.

Therese Winyard

Yeah, projecting themselves into that in the future and thinking about those things, then it's just all about that family communication and relationships too, isn't it? As you're discussing these things and building relationships and building trust with each other you know, there, it's all about having fun together as well as the family as we said before. And we've said all the way through the, through the podcast and there's been great examples I think that we've talked about here and there’s so many more. I've seen great examples of great musical performances where families have got together and done a performance and shared it with their friends or dancing routines or creative ideas and so much that can come just from that play situation that we were so passionate about Jacqui, that we’ve talked about through this series about encouraging play, about being aware that when children are playing without you, they're still learning. But that also when you can find the time to play with them, how valuable that is. When adults or aunts and uncles, older brothers and sisters all play together, the outcomes can be so amazing.

Jacqui Ward

Yeah, I agree. I think that's so important, you know, and what a great way to spend your day, even if only some of it was spent playing with your children. You know, I think that's fantastic. So that wraps up our podcast today. So, thanks for chatting with me today, Therese. And this one is also the last in our series. So hopefully that everybody has learned a lot by listening along to the various players that we've had speaking in these podcasts, and that they've had a chance to get that valuable learning that's happening in those everyday home activities and routines and the importance of play and the importance of making learning visible to parents, to families and to children as well. So, thanks everybody for listening.

Therese Winyard

Thanks Jacqui. Thanks everybody. Bye.

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