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Michelle

Welcome back mathematicians. I’m here with my one of my most favourite little mathematicians today, Holly. Hi Holly.

Holly

Hi!

Michelle

Are you ready to do some maths with me?

[Screen shows one bag of coloured pegs and a set of white cards.]

Holly

Yeah.

Michelle

Excellent, so we have got some pegs here and some cards and can you turn this card over for me?

What number is that?

[Michelle points to coloured pegs and white cards. Holly turns over the first card in the pile which has 6 written on it.]

Holly

6.

Michelle

And then can you use these pegs to attach six pegs onto the cards? Yeah, I'll let you start.

[Michelle attaches one peg to the card, then removes it and empties the bag of pegs onto the floor. Holly starts attaching the pegs to the card.]

Holly

I am going to do it in a pattern.

Michelle

Ok.

[Holly attaches the pegs to one side of the card, one blue, one red, one white, one blue, one red, one white, totalling 6 pegs in a coloured pattern.]

Holly

It got so heavy.

Michelle

It is heavy. Can you prove to me or how do you know that is 6?

[Michelle points to the card and pegs with her finger.]

Holly

Because I lost track and I thought is that 6? So, I counted in my head, I was like 1, 2, 3... and you can even do it in twos like 2, 4, 6.

[Holly points and counts 2 pegs at a time.]

Michelle

Cool. You also said Holly, that you wanted to do it in a pattern, so can you show me where the pattern is that you made?

Holly

Well, I did blue, red, white, blue, red, white. And I did it in threes. See 3 plus 3 equals 6.

[Holly points to the coloured pegs indicating the pattern, one blue peg, one red peg and one white peg, then one blue peg, one red peg and one white peg. Holly then counts the pegs 3 at a time.]

Michelle

OK, let's try the next number. What about this one?

[Michelle moves the card with the number 6 to a new pile on the right and turns over the next card with the number 2.]

Holly

2.

[Holly pegs a red peg, then a blue peg to the card.]

Michelle

OK, and what about the next one?

[Michelle moves the card with the number 2 to the pile and turns over the next card with the number 0.]

Holly

0 so that means any.

Michelle

No pegs?

[Michelle moves the card with the number 0 to the pile.]

What about this number?

[Michelle turns over the next card with the number 1.]

Holly

It's 1.

[Holly pegs a red peg to the card. Michelle moves the card to the pile.]

Michelle

And what about this number here, Holly?

[Michelle turns over the next card with the number 3.]

Holly

Three. 1, 2, 3.

[Holly pegs a red peg, a blue peg and a white peg to the card and puts the card on the pile.]

Michelle

What about this number?

[Michelle turns over the next card with the number 5.]

Holly

5. 1, 2 ...

[Holly counts out 5 pegs. Holly pegs 2 blue pegs and 3 red pegs to the card and puts the card on the pile.]

Michelle

OK, and this is the last one. What about this number Holly? What's that number?

[Michelle turns over the last card with the number 4.]

Holly

4.

Michelle

OK, can you put that many pegs on there?

[Holly pegs 4 pegs to the card in a red, blue, red, blue pattern and puts the card on the pile.]

And we don't need these pegs so I'm going to move them out of the way.

[Michelle pushes unused pegs to the side. and spreads out the cards with pegs attached to them.]

And then Holly I was wondering if you could.

Now we've got all these numbers here, with the pegs on there. Could you order them for me from the smallest number over here to the biggest number over here?

[Michelle points to Holly’s left when she says the ‘smallest number over here’ and Holly’s right when she says the ‘biggest number over here’.]

Holly

That's the biggest number.

[Holly moves the card with the number 6 to the right.]

Michelle

Which is that one?

Holly

6. This one goes here.

[Holly moves the cards with the numbers 3, 4, and 5 into order from left to right and then moves cards with the numbers 0, 1 and 2 to the left, showing 0 to 6 in order from left to right.]

[Screen reads: You might also like to ask some other questions ...]

[Michelle takes away the card with the number 3.]

Michelle

What number is missing?

Holly

3.

Michelle

How do you know?

Holly

Because 1, 2. It goes 0, 1, 2 but it wouldn't go 4, 5, 6. So it has to go 3, but there’s no 3.

[Holly points to cards with the numbers 0, 1, 2, then 4, 5 and 6, demonstrating 3 is missing. She then points to the space where the card with the number 3 was.]

Michelle

So, if I put the 3 back.

[Michelle places the card with the number 3 back in place.]

Close your eyes again now for me, Holly.

[Michelle takes away the cards with the numbers 2 and 4.]

What about now? What's missing?

Holly

4 and 2.

Michelle

How do you know?

Holly

1, look. 0, 1, look 3 and 5, 6. it has to be 0, 1 and then 2 but there's no 2 and then it has to go, 3, 4 but there's no 4.

[Holly points at 0, 1, 3, 5 and 6. She then points to the spaces where the cards with the numbers 2 and 4 were.]

Michelle

Oh aha.

[End of transcript]

[Screen shows 5 white cards with numbers on them. From left to right, the cards are numbered 0, 1, 3, 5 and 6. The cards numbered 1, 3, 5 and 6 have the matching number of pegs attached. The cards numbered 2 and 4 are missing.]

Michelle

What about now? What's missing?

Holly

4 and 2.

Michelle

How do you know?

Holly

one...

1, look. 0, 1, look 3 and 5, 6. it has to be 0, 1 and it has to go 2 but there's no 2 and then it has to go, 3, 4 but there's no 4.

[ Holly points to the numbers 0 and 1, then to the empty space where 2 should be, then to the number 3, and then to the empty space where 4 should be.

Michelle

So, the numbers have to go in order.

Is that right? OK and maybe.

[Michelle places 4 and 2 in the wrong order.]

Is that right now?

Holly

No, it doesn't go 0, 1, 4, 3, 2, 5, 6.

[Holly points to cards.]

Michelle

How does it go?

[Holly puts 2 and 4 in the correct order.]

Every time.

Holly

Yes. So, for example, if this was me.

I'd go like, so this goes here and that goes here. I'm done. And that goes 0, 1, 6, 4, 3, 5, 2. Not how it goes. They need to go in their exact same spot.

[Holly moves cards around while she is talking, putting cards in the wrong order of zero, one, 6, 4, 3, 5, 2. Holly then puts the cards in the correct order.]

Michelle

And that's the right order? We always count in the same order, is that right?

Holly

Uhuh

[End of transcript]

[Screen shows 4 white cards with numbers on them. From left to right, the cards are numbered 3, 4, 5 and 6. Each card has the matching number of pegs attached.]

Michelle

I have one other question for you Holly. Let's look at…. So, let's choose the number 5. Are you still 5?

[Michelle removes all the cards except the card with the number 5.]

Holly

Yes

Michelle

So, let's choose the number 5 because it's the same age as you. So how many pegs are on that card Holly?

Holly

5.

[Holly picks up the card with the number 5.]

Michelle

And what happens now, may I have the card, is it OK?

[Holly puts the card with the number 5 back].

What happens if I like spread them out like this? Do you need to count them again?

[Michelle spreads the pegs out on the card.]

Holly

No.

Michelle

How many are there?

Holly

There's still 5.

Michelle

What if I move this on this side?

[Michelle moves one red peg from the right side of the card and pegs it on the left side of the card.]

How many pegs are on the card?

Holly

There's still 5.

Michelle

What if I go like this?

[Michelle moves a white peg from the right side of the card and pegs it on the left side of the card.]

Holly

Still 5.

Michelle

What if I change this white peg for this clip? How many things are still attached to the card?

[Michelle removes the white peg on the left side of the card and replaces it with a small clip.]

Holly

5.

Michelle

So, are you saying to me Holly that it doesn't matter if they are really close together, or really spread out, or even on one side and the other side, it's still 5?

[Michelle moves the red peg from the left side of the card back to the right side of the card, and picks up the white peg and puts it on the right side of the card, so there are 5 pegs on the right side of the card. Michelle removes the small clip from the left side of the card and spreads the pegs out on the right side of the card. Michelle then takes one red peg from the right side of the card and pegs it to the left side of the card.]

Holly

Yeah.

Michelle

Even if I swapped one peg for a clip, I still have five things attached.

[Michelle removes the red peg from the left side of the card and adds one small clip instead.]

Holly

Yeah look. I'll show you.

Michelle

Show me.

Holly

When they're all spread out, see 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. And when they're on the other side... 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

[Holly counts the 4 pegs on one side of the card and one small clip on the other side. She then moves one peg to the other side so it is beside the clip.

Michelle

And so, 5 doesn't, say. You know how you counted 1, 2, 3, 4, 5? Five doesn't tell me that this peg's name is 5 like your name is Holly or my name is Michelle. The five says this is how many things are here.

[Michelle points and counts each peg. She holds one peg when talking about names. Michelle then points to the five pegs when talking about how many things are on the card.]

Holly

Yeah.

Michelle

Oh, so it doesn't matter if I go 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or change these.

[Michelle counts the three pegs on the right side of the card and then the peg and small clip on the left side of the card, then counts back. Michelle removes one peg from the left side of the card and puts a spare peg in its place.]

It's just about how many things are attached. Is that right?

Holly

Yes!

Michelle

Thanks, Holly.

Holly

Bye bye.

Michelle

See you.

[End of transcript]