Siobhan:

I'd like to acknowledge that this episode of the Teach NSW Podcast was recorded on the Homelands of the Darug people. I'd like to pay respect to Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander peoples listening to the Teach NSW Podcast today.

Opening Credits:

Welcome to the Teach NSW Podcast, a podcast by teachers for teachers. I'm Shannon and, I'm Siobhan.

Siobhan:

Welcome back everybody, to another episode of the Teach NSW Podcast. Whether you're a new listener or someone chiming in again, thank you for joining us. Today, we have a special guest, Casey, a teacher in a NSW public school on the Homelands of the Darug people. Casey's also a head teacher of teaching and learning, and today we have him on the podcast to discuss differentiating content, lesson, processes, for your diverse learners. Welcome! Welcome to the couch, Casey.

Casey:

Thanks for having me.

Shannon:

You're so welcome. We love to kick off and let everyone get settled in with a teacher, This or That. So, the first one we have up for you is, indoor learning or outdoor learning?

Casey:

It depends. I think, when I have like a boy’s literacy or a really rambunctious class, I mix it up, get them in and out of the classroom. We have quite long periods.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Casey:

They're 76 minutes. So chunking with certain kids is really important, so it can be really fun to take them outside. But yeah, it just depends on what you're doing.

Shannon:

Yeah. Versatility, so

Casey:

I think, so, you know, I'm an English teacher, so sometimes being outside and reading can be quite nice and

Shannon:

Yeah.

Casey:

Things like that.

Shannon:

Find a nice shaded area.

Casey:

Yeah, and then get out with nature. And then there's some podcasts, I don't know if people look into them, but where they're experiential podcasts and

Shannon:

Oh, wow.

Casey:

You run around outside with it in your ears and

Shannon:

Ah, cool.

Casey:

They tell you to do things so you get the kids running around. But when you're writing, it's kind of in the classroom.

Shannon:

Yeah, yeah, sure.

Siobhan:

I'm adding that to my toolkit. I'm very much, I love, again, also an English teacher. I love taking my students outdoors for reading or getting their hands dirty within the areas of the school. Yeah, so I'm an outdoor learner, but obviously indoor for necessary writing tasks and things like that.

Shannon:

Yeah, I agree. I think a mix of both, as well. Like anytime, being primary-school based, like anytime I could go outside and do some outdoor learning, it was always like, I wanted it not to be like that special experience like that they felt like it only happens sometimes. So I tried to be quite fluid with how I would do it. And then we ended up getting like an upgrade where the Wi-Fi worked outside. So you know, the boundaries were really lifted then.

Casey:

Yeah, that helps a lot.

Shannon:

I could do everything outside that I could do in the classroom.

Siobhan:

I love that.

Shannon:

All right, the next one we have is, do you prefer to listen to music while you're working or quiet working environment?

Casey:

So marking, obviously, is the bane of the English teacher. But what I've tricked myself into doing is listening to Beethoven and Mozart.

Shannon and Siobhan:

Yeah.

Casey:

And I've got myself to a point, where is if I put that on, that is now my trigger to mark. And that actually psychologically helps me get through it. So it's no words, but yeah, I've kind of trained myself that when that comes on I'm like, 'Ooh, I need to mark.' And you know, it's

Shannon:

Where are the books? Where are the books?

Casey:

That's right.

Siobhan:

Ready to go.

Casey:

And it's weird when you hear it out in the world, isn't it, because you're like

Siobhan:

Oh, I should be marking right now.

Casey:

Yeah, that's right. Absolutely.

Shannon:

Get me my red pen and my stamp. Oh, what about you Siobhan?

Siobhan:

Casey just like made me think back to, in my Year 12 English classes, we do bell writing time. So I'd set like a timer and we'd do little,

Shannon:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

Yeah, brainstorms and yeah, segments of writing. But I found that this song called 'So What' by Miles Davis, which is just like jazz music playing in the background. It goes for the perfect length of time.

Shannon:

Do you want to give us a little rendition?

Siobhan:

Oh it's just like ‘Do do do do do’.

Siobhan:

There’s no words.

Shannon:

Like elevator music.

Siobhan:

Yeah, yeah.

Shannon:

Calming.

Siobhan:

And it was like 11 minutes and 45 seconds, which ended up being the sweet spot for my students. So really similar to what Casey was doing. They probably listen to it now and have psychological trauma.

Casey:

Yeah, that's right. It’s like, 'Oh my God, I've got to start writing.'

Siobhan:

'So What' by Miles Davis, I need to start my creative writing.

Shannon:

That's so true because I used to listen to classical music while studying at university. Like that was just like my thing. And even in Year 12 actually, classical music was the thing that just like got me in the head space that I was ready to, you know, do some learning, do some revision.

Siobhan:

Yeah, in terms of like within my classroom, I actually really do like using it, especially after recess or lunch to calm the students down. Literally on YouTube, like lo-fi, hip hop beats and it's like being in a cool cafe. I think it's really trendy and like, 'wow, love that', to get them sort of focused back into the routine. For me personally though, I always forget to listen to music when I'm doing like independent work because I've got a lot of thoughts running through my head, but then I turn the music on and it like helps me focus.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

So yeah, I think that I'm either, or, music when I remember

Shannon:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

To do music. What about you?

Shannon:

Yeah, definitely. I think like I enjoy listening to something classical, but then I think it's funny because often when I would drive home after a day of teaching, I would like silence because I think we are around so much different noise in our environment all day long that, that was the thing. The silence was quite nice in that sense. But while I was marking, I liked a bit of classical music.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Casey:

Yeah, I agree.

Shannon:

The next question is, sports extracurricular or an academic extracurricular?

Casey:

I think sport, I love sport, so I'm a big advocate, but I think there's a lot of correlation between kids being active and supporting the academic side of things. I think if you're stagnant all day, it's not good for the body and what's not good for the body, is not good for the mind, so I think it should be as active as possible.

Shannon:

All about those brain breaks, as well.

Casey:

Yeah, absolutely.

Shannon:

Yeah. Fantastic. What about you?

Siobhan:

I love that. I feel like I've said this a million times, but I'm like debating coach extraordinaire. I'm really competitive with debating, so (laughing)

Shannon:

Her title gets more and more.

Siobhan:

Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty serious with my debating. So I would say in terms of extracurricular, that would be my favourite academic extracurricular. But also I have led the school netball team to victory, too. So, really I just sat on the sideline and clapped and they did all the work, but you know, either or.

Casey:

Well, they still need you there, right?

Siobhan:

That's right, yeah. Blow the whistle a few times. Say, 'Good job.'

Shannon:

I sit somewhere in the happy middle.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Shannon:

I feel like, you know, we often joke like primary school teachers, jack-of-all-trades. So I find it hard to make up my mind and like have a point of like, I love doing that extracurricular because I think each one gives me something different.

Casey:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Well we might dive right in and let's go back to the beginning. Tell us Casey, how did you find yourself to where you are today, head teacher - teaching and learning?

Casey:

Well, I guess I've had a, my mother was an English teacher originally and then she worked with the department. So I've always kind of followed in her footsteps as far as like looking at the kind of science of teaching and learning, because part of her role was a literacy coordinator and she had to obviously know what works best and supported schools in doing that. So through her contacts, I was an SLSO when I was working through uni, which was, I really recommend if you can get in

Shannon and Siobhan:

Yeah.

Casey:

To work in a school before teaching. I think that's like a massive support to understanding what schools are like because they're like these complex organisms that you know, you can't fully comprehend until you're in it. And then I did my prac at the school that I'm currently at and they picked me up. I applied for the job and I was fortunate enough, I think in 2009, and I've stayed at that school ever since. I took one year off to look after my daughter and went to uni, started a Master's of Education and that kind of fed my passion of teaching and learning side of things. And then I was fortunate enough to get the job at my school as teaching and learning, and yeah, that's where I've stayed.

Siobhan:

So is that like a Master's of Educational Leadership or?

Casey:

Yes, it was.

Shannon:

I think for me as a primary school teacher, I'm fascinated to know like what's a day look like as a head teacher - teaching and learning? What's it all about?

Casey:

So you're not necessarily like, unlike a faculty head teacher, where you're managing the daily runnings of a group of staff, like an English head teacher, you know, if someone's away, you’re making sure the casual covers all done and you are a leader of curriculum, but there's a lot more day-to-day running. I handle more of the overarching school direction. So I work with the principal on writing the school plan,

Shannon:

Yep.

Casey:

Implementing those sort of things. I look after all the professional learning. We monitor all the fun stuff, like the mandatory training, making sure people are up-to-date with those things. I'll support people with their accreditation and things like that. And then maintenance. Yeah, so that's pretty much what a day-to-day looks like. Teachers will ask me for support and I might work with them on a project or come into their classroom, give them feedback as well.

Shannon:

Yeah, fantastic.

Siobhan:

I want to pick up from where you were talking about supporting teachers of any kind, but particularly beginning teachers. What does the support that you provide to them look like?

Casey:

So that's more of a team support at our school because we have a head teacher - mentoring

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Casey:

Which looks after the beginning teachers. I will come in and I present to them on things like cognitive load theory. They also get support in behaviour management and content-related support and you know, learning intentions, success criteria and all those sort of things. And supporting them in developing and implementing those in the classroom. As I say, my role comes in more as the whole school and if people ask for that support with the beginning teachers. But at our school, I think it's a really well established program now that they get a lot of support from multiple places. And I think that's the philosophy we use is that, you know, you might not connect with one of us in the leadership team, but there's lots of avenues of support.

Shannon:

So alongside your head teacher - teaching and learning role, what kind of classes do you have on your teaching load?

Casey:

At the moment, I've got all the senior English teaching. That's probably just this year. We've had a bit of a turnover in staff, so I've had to pick up more senior load. But traditionally, I like to take the junior school as well and particularly the boy’s literacy program, which we've developed.

Shannon:

Oh cool. I'd love to hear more about that.

Casey:

Yeah, so we're a full comprehensive and that's one of the best things about working in a public school, is the fact that in any one day I'm working with a kid that could get a 99 ATAR. I'm also working with kids that really need a lot of high-end support and needs. And so every day, you're challenged and there's something different. It really keeps the day interesting. So with the boy’s literacy, we kind of identified that there's some, we don't run it every year, but there's years when you're like, 'Wow, those year eights, you know, they're really struggling.'

Shannon and Siobhan:

Need some support. Yeah.

Casey:

So we take them out and we support them through changing the curriculum to match their needs. It's a lot of chunking. So we might get them outside a bit more and get them a bit more active and just ensuring, you know, English can be quite, seen as quite, feminine. So we pick more masculine texts and things that we think they'll enjoy. So one of my favourite units to teach them is Lord of the Flies. You know, boys running riot on an island seems to go really well.

Shannon:

Relatable content for them.

Siobhan:

Relatable, yeah.

Casey:

Yeah, that's right. And then we turn the classroom into the island and then the reward on the back of that is, they have to take all the imagery of the island and they have to make it in Minecraft, and so

Shannon:

Oh, wow.

Casey:

Then they've got to justify to me, 'Well, why did you make the island look like that? Oh because the book says it, look here.' And they really enjoy that and then they blow it up at the end because that's just what they like to do.

Shannon:

Yeah. But what a cool, like differentiation strategy for your students who do require, you know, additional support for example, to engage them. Like, you obviously know your students. That's quite evident from what you've just said, like they're engaged with Minecraft. It's the big thing with students, some cohorts. I, myself, have had many Minecrafters.

Casey:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Learned so much from them all. But you're right, like that's a great way to bring them along on the journey and have them, you know, embed that technology with their learning.

Siobhan:

I think it's really important to rethink just the approach with a lot of the tasks that you present in English and just getting a little bit creative with students in teaching them literacy. I personally am a massive rap and hip hop fan, so as many times as I can bring in the lyricism of rap or the culture and history of hip hop into my lessons, I think the students really pick up and play into that. So many a time, I've created a very achievable rubric on, you know, the basics of writing some, spitting some fire bars for the kids to get them down.

Casey:

Can we get a bit of a?

Siobhan:

Yeah, oh, that'll be an off-camera moment.

Shannon:

I think we could really weave it into our intro.

Siobhan:

Yeah, 100%.

Casey:

I think so, yeah.

Shannon:

I think you bring a really good point there, Casey. Some talent unlocked.

Siobhan:

That's right. But I typically use that approach as like a revision strategy or a hook into a lesson. So depending on the mood of the students and how interested they are perhaps to engage in a topic, I mean you'd potentially find, typically Shakespeare might be something that students are really apprehensive towards at the start, but once you, you know, bring in some sort of interesting hook or element, I find that you get them on side quicker.

Casey:

I was just listening on the way here to a podcast with Dylan Wiliam, who is my favourite researcher at the moment. But they were talking about the debate between explicit instruction and inquiry and engagement learning and that constructivist learning. And the point is that if the kids don't feel engaged or hooked or feel like they belong in your classroom, it doesn't matter what kind of a teaching strategy you're using, if you don't hook them in and make them feel welcome and meet the learning where they're at, no learning is going to take place anyway.

Shannon:

Yeah, yeah. I like how you've touched on that, the importance of creating that positive environment where they feel like they belong and they feel like they have a piece of that classroom, as well. I think, you know, coming from the primary space, it almost can be a little bit easier in a sense depending on the school that you're at. In a high school, sometimes you move rooms.

Casey:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Sometimes you stay in your room, whereas I come from a place where I'm in my room for the 12 months with my students. So I have that opportunity to really build that classroom learning space and make it sort of, you know, our team environment.

Siobhan:

Mm.

Shannon:

How do you do that in your high school experience?

Casey:

Well I think in high school and especially with boys, the boys are more likely to attribute the teacher to the subject.

Shannon:

Hmm

Casey:

So you become that, in a boy’s literacy setting, you really become that environment. And the way you approach them. So if they know you're welcoming and you want them in the room and you want them to learn, they then, it doesn't matter what room you're in as much.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Casey:

Ideally, it'd be great to have your own room and get them working, but yeah, I think that's our key takeaway is that boys generally associate the teacher with the subject, not the other way around.

Shannon:

Yeah, more than the four walls.

Casey:

That's right.

Shannon:

I like that.

Siobhan:

Home is where the teacher is.

Shannon:

Aww.

Siobhan:

So with your boy’s literacy group, what are some like real baseline strategies that a beginning teacher could potentially use in their classroom? For me, one that I typically used was sentence starters in that English context. I think that really gets over the initial apprehension to just at least put pen to paper. That can be a certain initial hurdle. What else do you use in the classroom?

Casey:

I think we do a lot of visual support. So instead of like getting them to try and find their own information, I'll print out the actual like quotes that they need to use. So say we're writing an essay. And I'll print out 20 quotes and then we do a lot of activities around like, ‘Okay, well which one's saying what?’ Rather than trying to get them to go find them, which might be problematic. You just give them the material.

Shannon:

Send them on like a little maze.

Casey:

Well yeah because that's the explicit teaching coming out, right? So there's nothing to say that if we look at a quote together that I've found and we talk about it, break it down

Shannon:

We can, yeah.

Casey:

That they don't know it any better because they went and found it themselves. You're just saving yourself a lot of time.

Shannon:

Absolutely.

Casey:

And because with a lot of these kids that they'll get lost or they'll get bored and

Shannon:

Yeah.

Casey:

So if you just tell them, 'Hey look, here's your quotes.' And because when you build it together that way, they get that success and that's what you really want to build in the kids, is a sense of success because that causes motivation.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Casey:

So sometimes you've got to really work super hard to get that first, 'Look at how well we've done as a group, and look at how well you've achieved.' And then that achievement then leads to motivation for next time.

Siobhan:

That's a really good strategy. I like that. I've done something before where I've auctioned off quotes to students. So I've given them like fake, you know, dollarydoos and said, you know, ‘Bet on your favourite quotes.’ And then we'd discuss at the end, 'Well why did everybody put their hand up for this particular quote? It must be one that's rich in value and that you would use over and over again.’ So that was a really good way for them to see in a different perspective what was useful within the text and what wasn't perhaps.

Casey:

Yeah, absolutely. It's high engagement, right? Like they're having a bit of fun.

Siobhan:

And strategy.

Casey:

Yeah and it's a good way to trick people, and the kids, especially, into getting their thoughts out there because I think that again it’s getting kids talking so you can assess what they're picking up and not. So any opportunity you can do to assess and formatively assess how they're going is really important.

Shannon:

Yeah and I love like building a little bit of magic as well around an experience. So when I would start a new novel with my students, one year I introduced this thing where I wrapped the novel up and I put it in a box and it was like a secret delivery. I mean, it's very primary school, but you know everything

Siobhan:

We do it in high school, we do blind date with a book.

Casey:

Yeah, that's right.

Shannon:

Ah, yeah!

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Shannon:

And we, yeah, so we had to like take guesses and there were like, I had little clues each day sort of like in the lead-up and the suspense

Siobhan:

That's great.

Shannon:

Was just so much fun. Like yeah, turned out to be one of like my favourite novels that I studied with the class. But I think I pinpoint that to like how much hype and excitement was around surrounding like, 'What's it going to be?' Like the suspense of it all. So as much as that's like wonderful for your students, also as a teacher, I feel like you're on that journey with them. You're like, 'Oh, what's it going to be?’

Siobhan:

It's like your fifth year teaching the same novel, but you're like, 'I'm ready, I'm excited.'

Shannon:

You know, new way. Package it up in a different manner.

Siobhan:

I like that. Well what about for your typical student? I suppose we've talked about like our fairly disengaged in your context, your disengaged boys, you're also teaching your higher-end students and we can touch on that later, particularly in your Extension 2 classes and things like that. What about just your middle-of-the-road strategies for differentiation for your typical class?

Casey:

I think it's really important to know the issues within each classroom. So, I think in high school, what we deal with a lot is apathy. And so it's a matter of well how do you and how do you hook them in and make them feel like they want to achieve or you know, they're not just going to go home and play five hours of PlayStation.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Casey:

So how do we combat these things? Often, food's a really good one. Food motivates kids, so.

Shannon:

Motivates me, too.

Casey:

It does, it motivates all of us.

Shannon:

I'm a full-grown adult.

Casey:

So just, you know, little things that you can do is be welcoming when they come in and I think for me, environment is key. So they walk in, you know, if a kid's five, 10 minutes late to your class, it's not like berating them in front of

Shannon:

Yeah.

Casey:

Because those middle kids can do it, right.

Shannon:

Yeah. Yeah.

Casey:

But the more welcome they feel when they enter the room, that tends to be a really important factor to that success. And then all your strategies work across the board, as well. Like, essay writing in particular is very daunting for kids. So using sentence starters across the board is not a problem. You can just change the complexity of them.

Siobhan:

That's right.

Casey:

So often you'll find that strategy is actually really, really, you level the strategy, yeah. And it's how you level the scaffolding and things like that. I think for those middle classes, what am I doing at the moment? I've got a Year 12 kind of middle class and I think, yeah, a lot of kids in that middle ground, I think it's more motivation and getting them really engaged in the content. Explicit teaching, as well, so.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Casey:

So telling kids, 'Hey, this is what this is.'

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

I've found that showing sample pieces of writing to my senior, well, all students, but particularly to my senior students, showing them, giving them a sample piece of writing, showing them the marking criteria in comparison to that and getting them to go through and they mark it.

Casey:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

We come back and we discuss, ‘Well why was this a 16 out of 20? Why is this sitting in the B range?’ Or perhaps they've sort of given it an A or a C and we discuss where it actually sits and why. Then they can see what's expected of them. So I think yeah, explicit.

Shannon:

Such a good way like flipping it and then they know the rubric through and through and what you expect. And they know what's expected of them.

Casey:

Absolutely. So I worked with a colleague who did a research project on exactly that. And so there's an article in the ETA that I co-authored with Samantha who is now at the HSC strategy with the department. I think, do they work here?

Shannon:

Yeah, probably.

Casey:

So she'll be around here somewhere. But she did this whole implementation where we did success criteria but breaking it down into language that the kids can use.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Casey:

Because English criterias are so innately intangible.

Siobhan:

Yes.

Casey:

So part of our project that she led was making sure that kids could utilise the language that was tangible on the page to the writing. And that's something that is still in play at our school today.

Siobhan:

Well that's excellent, yeah.

Casey:

Yeah, so very similar but a huge focus.

Shannon:

Yeah, that's really cool.

Siobhan:

Cool, nice for me knowing that I've been doing the right thing all along. Which is good. What about for these students who are more academically inclined or gifted, or you know, wherever we're putting them in this space, who are potentially taking your extension subjects or in your classes working above-level? How do you extend them in a way that's not tokenistic, I suppose?

Casey:

Yeah, and that's always the challenge. I think when you teach Extension 2 English, the subject is innately inquiry-based and that for gifted students is how you push them, quote. Ask and getting them to ask good questions and getting them to kind of research and giving them skills to extend themselves for those gifted students. So at our school, we use inquiry or project-based learning to extend kids. And so that's a really good strategy is making sure your explicit teaching is done, but then releasing control to the kids to show what they can do. A lot of fun stuff, too. They like creating things. So we have a little podcasting space.

Siobhan:

Yeah, great.

Casey:

Not quite as fancy as this, but. So we get kids to make podcasts and all sorts of things to share their learning.

Shannon:

You should have told us, we could have come down and podcasted right there.

Casey:

I don't think you'd fit in the room, to be honest. Get about three people in there.

Siobhan:

It’s a beginner podcaster studio, yeah.

Casey:

Yeah, that's right.

Shannon:

They could probably teach us a thing or two to be quite honest.

Casey:

Some of my kids could, yeah. They're fantastic and they really, because part of the Extension 2 course is learning your medium. A lot of them do podcasting so they become expert by the end of it and I start showing them the basics and by the end they're teaching me how to do things so.

Shannon:

Amazing. Yeah. And a cool way to differentiate for them. Like, I feel like we're living in such a digital world where information is so accessible at our fingertips and podcasts is one of those really cool ways to easily digest information on the go. So yeah, it's cool to hear that that's happening in schools all around NSW.

Casey:

Yeah. That's really cool.

Shannon:

Yeah, so the school context that you're currently at, it's a creative and performing arts school. Would you like to share with us what that kind of looks like and what it means?

Casey:

Yeah, it's another layer to working in comprehensive high schools, which is all part of the fun. So we have kids that get in partially selective for creative and performing arts, so drama, dance, music, and now circus, which is really cool.

Shannon and Siobhan:

Wow!

Siobhan:

A circus.

Casey:

Yeah, it is very cool.

Siobhan:

Sign me up.

Shannon:

It's more than that.

Casey:

Maybe a little. No, but they get on the high ropes in the hall.

Siobhan:

Oh wow.

Shannon:

Oh my gosh.

Casey:

The whole hall has been decked out with like the silks, I don’t know if you've seen the silks.

Shannon and Siobhan:

Yeah, yeah.

Casey:

And they tie themselves up and then just let themselves drop and you're like, it's super exciting to watch.

Shannon:

Wow.

Siobhan:

So is that like an elective?

Casey:

It's part of the CAPA stream. But the good thing is that kids that aren't selective do get opportunities to dance and drama, which not all schools get, which is very cool.

Shannon:

Yeah, amazing.

Casey:

So what does that mean for us is the kids are out of class a lot because they're so talented. And it makes the day busy. And I think my colleagues would say, you know, it's a challenge but what you get is this really dynamic group of kids that are really interesting and different and they bring that into all their classrooms. So it is really, really cool honestly to see how talented these kids are and what they can bring and how you can leverage that in every classroom through presentations and collaboration because they work in these, like the drama kids are always working to put on these skits in their subjects. So obviously their collaboration skills are quite unique.

Shannon:

Wow.

Siobhan:

I'd love to see a maths skit.

Casey:

Yeah, that's right.

Shannon:

So you could really channel that in all your key learning areas.

Casey:

Yeah, you can. Yeah, absolutely.

Shannon:

Yeah. Wow. Circus is incredible. Like, I just never even thought of that as an option, so.

Casey:

No, we've had it for a few years now and just when you first hear about it, your first thought is clowns, right? But then you watch it on our showcase nights and you're just blown away by the acrobatic kind of Cirque Du Soleil style.

Shannon:

Yeah and then, so are there opportunities for your students, you know, attending a creative and performing arts high school, to go and showcase their skills in sort of that wider school community level, or?

Casey:

Yeah, so it depends on the kids and the kind of strand that they're in. But we hold mid-year showcases at the school and then we actually have our yearly showcase at the Riverside Theatre.

Shannon:

Oh, wow.

Casey:

And sell it to the public. And so they all get to put on this massive two-hour spectacle, which is, every year very, very impressive. And obviously the CAPA staff at our school work so hard to make it as professional as it looks and then they get opportunities at competitions and we get kids at Encore and I think one of our kids sang at School Spec the other, last year. It was a feature, he wrote his own song and actually got to sing the closing ceremony from memory.

Siobhan:

Incredible.

Shannon:

That's so cool. What an opportunity.

Casey:

Yeah, it was sensational on TV and everything.

Shannon:

Oh my goodness. Yeah. Gosh, imagine.

Siobhan:

I love that.

Shannon:

I'd love to hear a little bit more about some, we talked a little bit about your strategies, but are there any sort of tools that you swear by, use every day, in your repertoire of teaching?

Casey:

I think learning routines are really important. So you know, making sure the kids have their learning intentions, success criteria, but we call it DEAL, which is drop everything and learn. So when kids walk into the room, there's a little activity on the board and they just know to get their stuff out and to start writing.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Casey:

Because I think having little learning routines like that, they build good habits and the kids aren't like waiting for you to start. It's just on the board and they look up and they get going.

Siobhan:

So how do you as a head teacher - teaching and learning, sort of get that whole school buy-in to that strategy? I think that that's something that typically can be quite challenging across the school, is working with other staff and telling them the benefit

Casey:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

Of implementing a new strategy. It can be daunting for some people to implement things that they might not particularly know about. So how do you get whole school buy-in?

Casey:

Well we try the distributed leadership model where we get leaders from each one. Something that is a challenge at a high school, I think, is the different subject areas. Not everything works everywhere.

Siobhan:

Not a blanket strategy.

Casey:

That's right, and that's the challenge, so.

Siobhan:

But DEAL sounds like it is.

Casey:

Yeah, it is. DEAL's not too bad. I think in a prac setting, it doesn't work, necessarily, because like, PE, go get changed, come out and then get started, so.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Casey:

You know what I mean? So in a woodwork classroom

Shannon:

Some barriers.

Casey:

There are, it's not necessarily uniform, but I think working with really amazing staff like we have, that they find ways of tweaking it to suit their KLA.

Shannon:

Yeah, I used to do drop everything and read.

Casey:

Yep, the DEAR.

Shannon:

Yeah, yeah. And my students, oh I had this one cohort, honestly, it was like 30 little bookworms in a class.

Siobhan:

They wouldn't put the book down, yeah.

Shannon:

They just loved it.

Siobhan:

I had a similar.

Shannon:

But it brought me so much joy and I had this one little, she was a little girl, and she said to me, she goes, 'Oh, Miss, why don't you drop everything and read when we do?' So then I started doing it with them. And I felt like me doing that, it just showed them like they were so happy to see me embracing what made them so happy, as well. Yeah, it was really nice to be able to share and then we'd have a little chat in little groups about what was going on in everyone's text. It was a nice way to do it.

Casey:

And that's a really important thing on modelling too,

Shannon:

Yes.

Casey:

Is making sure that we're modelling behaviours, modelling learning, as well. So any opportunity you get to do it with the kids is really important.

Shannon:

Yeah, absolutely. I used to, I was a big fan of Smiling Mind and particularly when they would come in after a hot summer's lunchtime out on, playing on the oval, we would do, it was like five-minute guided meditation and I would do it with them. And to be honest, it was a really nice way, particularly, you know, if you were out on playground duty, for example, or you know, whatever you had going on at lunchtime, sometimes that can take us in different directions. But it was a nice way to all reset together I think, and then we were able to, you know, take what we learned from that meditation, that space, and then come into our next lesson.

Casey:

Yep.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

I like that. I think I would like to ask you, Casey, now a question about the impact or lasting impact that you feel being a teacher has had on your school community. Because from what I know,

Shannon:

No pressure.

Casey:

No.

Siobhan:

From what I know, you're kind of part of the furniture there, right?

Casey:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

You did your placement there and haven't left since.

Casey:

That's right. So I think I've been there since 2009.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Wow.

Casey:

My daughter's starting there next year because I live in the local community. And I think just yesterday and it was, what timing for the podcast. But I got an email from an ex-student who, and it's this huge email and I have to respond, but I've been really like,

Siobhan:

Thinking about.

Casey:

Been floored because she pretty much said the whole trajectory of her life had changed because she had some issues at high school that I supported her through with other members of the school community and she is now a lawyer.

Siobhan:

Wow.

Casey:

And she's showed me pictures of her cat and her books and just a real thank you message. So I think that for me really sums up what it is like to be in public education, is that the moments of impact that you make on kids and that was, she graduated four years ago.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Casey:

And so the fact she's written me this very long personal letter thanking me for the support and impact that I've made on her, really sums up what this job is about. It's about those moments of support and the impact you have on people's lives. And that's just a drug. Like, it just, it's so important to remember that that's why we do this job.

Shannon:

That's why we do what we do.

Siobhan:

That's right. I actually know of and follow a teacher on Instagram, she recently just shared that one of the cards that she wrote on to farewell one of her students in Year 12 last year said like with love from, and then her name. The student got part of her handwriting tattooed on her arm and came and said, 'Miss, I've got your writing on my arm,' like,

Casey:

Wow.

Siobhan:

I just think that what a phenomenal way to mark the impact that you can have on a student's life. There's nothing more flattering, I suppose, than seeing the impact that you can have on them. Yeah, you can't really put it into words until you experience it, I feel,

Casey:

No, absolutely not. And it's one of those things that I think every teacher's had that impact. And you don't always necessarily get to see it.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Casey:

So when you do get those moments where that does happen, it's really, you got to savour it because that's exactly the impact you have. We are the profession that feed all other professions. Yeah, so.

Siobhan:

Yeah, you've built that future lawyer, you've built the future doctor, you've built the future, you know, trade assistant, whatever avenue the student chooses to go into. Like, you've had a hand in shaping who they are, so.

Shannon:

Yeah, I always say to my students, I'm like, 'Look around, you are the future of Australia.' I'm like, 'No pressure, boys and girls.' Oh no, that's really special. I think going back on what Siobhan was saying, you know, part of the furniture at your current school, but what does it mean to be, you know, live in your community area, have started your career there and you would be known to your community in such a way because you've, you know, spent so much time there?

Casey:

It's really special. Especially when you take through like multiple siblings.

Shannon and Siobhan:

Yeah.

Casey:

And the parents kind of go, 'Oh, we're back here again.' I'm like, 'Oh, this is great.' And there'll be instances where parents will reach out to me because I've dealt with their older siblings and their older siblings have said, 'Oh this is great, and he'll help you with that.'

Shannon:

You'd have that trusted connection.

Casey:

That's right.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Casey:

So no matter what is happening at the school, you get families go through and they're the ones that come back and they're so grateful for that support. So whilst there is a lot of people that, you know, take opportunity to move forward and move on from their schools, I think there's also, when you find a school that you feel so connected to, it's just really special. So as I say, I'm sending my kids to the same school and

Shannon:

Yeah.

Casey:

I can't see myself leaving anytime soon. I usually joke that I'm probably going to die there.

Shannon:

No, but it's, you know, for you as a teacher, as well, it's obvious you've had a lot of opportunities within the one context to be able to grow and develop your professional skills. And I think that's really valuable as well to go on that journey with the school.

Casey:

Yeah, absolutely. So there are always opportunities with the department at the moment, obviously to stay in your school and to work and yeah. And as I say, I think there is a bit of luck when people retire and things like that.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Casey:

But one thing about schools is obviously, as I said before, they're like these organisms and part of what's a big stress I think for new teachers is learning all the processes and procedures of a school. So I found staying at the one school where I kind of have all of it mastered in the way the school operates, not necessarily the teaching, but you feel really stable and you know, you don't have to go and learn all those school processes because they're all kind of just there all the time. So I found that quite comforting to stay in one spot.

Siobhan:

And each to their own right. Like some people love moving and jumping between contexts, trying out something new. Others feel more comfortable grounding their roots somewhere and really trying to work from the ground up

Casey:

Yeah, that's right.

Siobhan:

To build their career there. So I think, I mean that's the beauty and the benefit, right, of our system.

Casey:

Yeah. Absolutely.

Siobhan:

It allows you to do either/or, which is great.

Shannon:

And what about your transition from, you know, classroom teacher into an executive role, into your head teacher role?

Casey:

Like the classroom, I think it's all about relationships. So you've just got to work really hard on making sure those relationships are really good within the staff and your people that are around you.

Shannon:

Know your staff and how they learn.

Casey:

Absolutely.

Shannon:

I mean, it's true. Like, I say it in a jovial manner, but I do believe like relationships are your foundation.

Casey:

Yeah, that's right. And understanding what the school context is. And we are a busy, comprehensive high school, so we try to minimise the disruption we make and just focus on what we think is really important.

Shannon:

All right, well thank you so much, Casey, for joining us today. It was really valuable to hear about how you differentiate for the diverse learner and you know, all the, sort of the whole school element, as well. It was really nice to get a snapshot into that at your school. So thank you so much for joining us. That's all from us today on the couch. Thank you again for tuning in, listening on your preferred platform and we'll see you next time.

Siobhan:

Bye.

Shannon:

Thank you for tuning into the Teach NSW Podcast where we explore the dynamic world of education. Don't forget to follow, like, and subscribe to be notified when new episodes become available. You can find us on social media via our handle @TeachNSW. Until next time, keep learning, keep teaching, and keep making a difference. The Teach NSW Podcast is a podcast by the Teach NSW team from the NSW Department of Education.