Siobhan:

I'd like to acknowledge that this episode of the Teach NSW podcast was recorded on the homelands of the Darug people. I'd like to pay respect to Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples listening today.

Opening Credits:

Welcome to the Teach NSW podcast, a podcast by teachers for teachers. I'm Shannon, and I'm Siobhan.

Shannon:

We are very excited because myself and Siobhan are back today, but we are joined by a very special guest. Yvette Poshoglian joins us on the couch. Welcome, Yvette.

Yvette:

Hi, guys. Thanks for having me.

Shannon:

Now, Yvette is a high school English teacher. She's also a children's author, and she's currently working with the Technology 4 Learning team to support beginning teachers in that space. She joins us today to discuss her vast career with the NSW Department of Education and the range of roles and opportunities that are available across the system. So, welcome. Thanks for joining us.

Yvette:

Thank you so much. Great to be here.

Siobhan:

We like to, you know, warm up all our guests on the couch and welcome them by doing a bit of a 'This Or That' segment. So, we're going to ask you, would you prefer this or that? So, sometimes teaching-related, sometimes just related to life.

Yvette:

Okay, great.

Siobhan:

So, I'll hit you with the first one. This or that? Reading a physical book or via a Kindle or similar device?

Yvette:

Physical book.

Siobhan:

Yeah?

Yvette:

Old school that way.

Shannon:

Yeah, nice. Is it the smell? Because my mum always says that she loves it for like the smell of a book.

Yvette:

It's the smell. It's just everything you want from a library space or the musty old book room at school. Like, it's all of those things combined.

Siobhan:

I love that.

Shannon:

I'm also a physical, definitely.

Siobhan:

Because I am on the go a lot in my car, I actually, well, I'm going to go left of field here and say audio books.

Yvette:

Yes. They are becoming closer to my heart. I will say that. Look, I think any way you consume books is, it counts. It's a read.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

Amazing. What about teaching Year 7 or Year 12?

Yvette:

Oh, Year 12. I love Year 7, but Year 12, you can get deep into the convos. And you know what it's like. It's just the conversations, you know, their knowledge, their coming into the world. I mean Year 7s are adorable.

Siobhan:

I feel like I've answered this question before, but I change from time to time. Love them both, but I would say what you're saying there about in terms of that like rich conversation and keeping your brain active, I suppose. I love that my Year 12s would always challenge me, and not in an obnoxious way, more of just like, yeah, questioning me and then I'd question them back. They're really fun to play devil's advocate with as well. So, yeah, I'd say Year 12.

Shannon:

And how cool, because they're really like, they're, you know, proper little adults almost by the end of Year 12.

Yvette:

They sure are. And everything that they're learning, everything that they're reading is just blowing their minds. And it's just a gift to watch that. But also, yes, it is challenging, and every single text you do with them, it's not even about the text, it's about the context of which, you know, where the story is set, or whatever, you know, they're reading is set, and how they can see themselves in that world. Yeah, there's a lot, there's a lot going on at that age.

Siobhan:

What about, because I know you're a children's author, creating a character or coming up with the plot?

Yvette:

Oh, my gosh. That is really tough.

Shannon:

I thought we were so clever with this one.

Siobhan:

Yeah. Shannon came up with this one. I was like, 'This is just genius.'

Yvette:

That really does get me, because I think they're so intrinsically linked. Honestly, when you set out to tell a story, and, obviously, when we're trying to teach our students to create, I think the character is at the heart of the story. But obviously, it's about driving them forward, and making them fall over, and then getting them over the line. So, I really think it's a very hard. I can't. They're not mutually exclusive. Sorry. I will just have to sit on the fence with that one. Equal weight there.

Siobhan:

Totally understand. You backed it up, so it's fair. It's fair. For me, I was like, you know, when I was teaching my students, I did enjoy activities where we would craft a character, because I liked to show them how it doesn't have to be such a two-dimensional character within their story. Like, what makes them tick, what makes them happy? How would they respond in certain situations? So, you're right. Like, if I put them in as part of the plot, how would they react? They're not going to react the same way, because they're human.

Yvette:

That's it. And one of the biggest pleasures of writing is world building as well. So, that's a great thing that you can do. And if you can get your students there or your young writers there, that's where the fun begins. And it's about having, you know, feeling like you've got that liberty to do that. So, I think it's, you know, they're so creative. It's about harnessing that and getting them in that world. And children's authors, any kind of writer, we live in our headspace most of the time. Everything's imaginative. There's no limits, so.

Shannon:

A fun place to be.

Yvette:

It's a wild place to be sometimes.

Siobhan:

It's a good escape from the real world sometimes.

Yvette:

Totally.

Shannon:

Yeah. Gosh. Well, take us back. So, you know, being a children's author, how did you take the leap into the teaching profession then?

Yvette:

Well, look, it's really interesting. I don't think my writing really kicked off until I did my teaching. I was leading into that. Before I became a teacher, I was working in the arts industry. I was actually working in the book industry. So, I was around story all the time. I was working with some really well known authors, illustrators. It was a privilege. And I just think I really, you know, even in thinking about all the things I've done in the department, I wish I'd gone into teaching sooner. I think it was probably something I should have done straight out of school, but then you take those winding roads, and I sort of, in my early thirties, decided to, it was time, it was the right moment. And so, I had been working for about 10 years in the book space, the publishing industry, and yeah, I think just working with editors and story. So, I just thought, look, it's time to get on the other side of the coin. And, you know, probably we're all children, we're all children of books and, you know, had those beautiful upbringings and exposure to books. And I think, you know, that's everything that drives an English teacher. The greatest irony is that my books are for younger readers, whereas I was teaching in a secondary classroom, but it was a really good fit for me. And by the time I got into the classroom, I've, look, it's very nerve wracking that you've been working in a completely different industry, but there are so many things that people, we all know that people who come from different industries bring different things to the classroom.

Shannon:

A wealth of experience. Yeah.

Yvette:

So, for me, it was a bit of let's just go with this and see how it goes. But, you know, as in school settings, it can be wonderful mentors, wonderful English staffrooms and faculty members and leadership teams who really do support you through that.

Siobhan:

Yeah. So, your story in, like, I think it will resonate with a lot of people. Like I, out on the road, I talk to a lot of parents who are looking to change careers. And they just say, 'It's time, and it's teaching for me.' Like, 'I want to go into teaching.' What would you say to someone who's considering retraining and becoming a teacher? I know you kind of touched on it earlier. 'I wish I did it sooner,' but yeah, what do you have to say to those people?

Yvette:

I think for me it was a no-brainer, because I knew I wanted to work in public education and that is the space that I'm in. I went to public schools, I am passionate about public education. So for me, I always knew that the department had a variety of scholarships on offer. For me, I knew at that time they were looking for English teachers in parts of Sydney. So, I thought that was a calculated decision on my part, and I sort of knew straight out the gate that I was going to have a position, because I got the scholarship, and that was a big part of why I was able to take the leap. Also, I just thought this is where I want to be. You know, it's a vocation, it's a calling, and all of those things and all those wonderful teachers that you grow up having, half of them still work in the department. I speak to them, we chat all the time, and that's incredible, to know that they've had that longevity and they're really, it's fantastic to watch their careers. So, my advice is really, if you feel like you have something to offer, go and do it. You know, if you're passionate about maths, if you're passionate about chemistry, if you're a physics person, if you have real world experience, you have a lot to bring to the classroom because your students need to hear that. They want to hear that. They are sponges. You know, particularly in secondary, where you're guiding them into their subject choices and beyond, that is the stuff that they often hold onto. So for me, that was my path. And I had already been writing, and just the whole, my first year of teaching was actually when my first book came out. So, it had been on the boil, but I really do think, for me as a writer, it was being around students and young people that really did bring it out. That's just the way it happened for me.

Shannon:

Yeah. Fantastic. And then going back to your, you know, coming out of uni doing such an accelerated course and having that support through a Teach NSW scholarship, what were those first 3 years like for you in the classroom? Back to beginning teaching days.

Yvette:

Oh, my goodness. It is a hold-on-to-your-hat experience when you're heading to school, heading into a classroom. In my case, like many of us, I was working in an area that I didn't know well. It was about understanding how much a school is part of a community. So, I taught in South West Sydney, and for me, it was just really lucky that I followed the Wests Tigers. That really was a ticket into my students supporting me. And I think that understanding the community, particularly the groups of students that we were working with, and understanding and getting the support from my colleagues and reaching out. And there were some awesome things. Like there was a group, every Friday we would get together and catch up and talk about the week, particularly the new teachers. And I mean, I was a new teacher and I was 33, you know? I don't think that there's any wrong age to be a new teacher, but it was the support of my fellow, my colleagues, and, you know, in understanding our cohort. And for me, that was a real learning curve, and part of the joy of actually uncovering who my students were, who their families were, and where they saw themselves in the world and where they were going to go. So, that was all stuff that I didn't anticipate, obviously. It just happens wherever you are, wherever you're teaching. That's the bonus you get.

Siobhan:

No, I like that, because we talk about like schools are more than just the students within. It's the staff and then it's the broader community as well. I think that was something for me in my first 3 years that actually really drew me even more to loving the profession as well, because I realised it's not just the 30 kids in my English class that I have period one, period 2, period 3, period 4, it's their families and it's the community. And it's, you know, all the wonderful excursions or activities that happen within the school and how much support is breathed into the school. So, I suppose that that really resonates with me, in terms of the.

Yvette:

Just remembered my first excursion that I ever took my students on.

Siobhan:

Tell us about it.

Yvette:

Oh, my goodness. It's that nerve-wracking head count every 10 seconds. And all we were doing was getting on the train at Campbelltown and going to town. And I tell you what, I don't think I've ever sweated that much in my life. But look, you're not on your own. And the kids are fine. They're actually so worldly, really. They helped me through, I think, as much as they.

Shannon:

And they know the local area, probably better than you did at the time.

Yvette:

Absolutely. So yeah, things like that. I was just thinking one of the best things we got to do was a group of Year 10 students, we got to take them into town. There was a scholarship program around getting students experience in an office setting but it was actually around poetry and slam poetry. And I know that all sounds a bit incongruous, but what the purpose of that program was was to get students from South West Sydney visualising being in a workspace in North Sydney overlooking the harbour and saying, 'This is your potential. This is what's happening. Today, we're doing poetry, but in 10 years, you could be here running a division or working on a project. This is your future.' And to be honest, that was those connections that actually, that's what you kind of live for, those opportunities to show students what's possible. So.

Shannon:

I think like I really resonate as well, adding onto what Siobhan was saying, in those first 3 years, it's such a good reminder to early career teachers that, you know, a school is so much more than just the curriculum. For example, we spend our time, you know, ideating, lesson planning, but really, looking broader, that community is so important and understanding like your students' context and where they come from as well. And when you land in a school, whether it be, you know, you've applied for a position, like I was similar, I taught at a school that wasn't around an area that I grew up in. So, it was a new community that you sort of have to almost immerse yourself in and have an understanding of what the culture and the context is like.

Yvette:

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, look, it is such a culture shock to go into the classroom, have a timetable, have students. I was not the, you know, I was not a classroom management expert. That is something you learn over time. You learn what works and what doesn't work. And you go in having one idea of what kind of teacher you want to be. And it's very different when you're on the floor, actually working with your students and understanding. That's why a collegial environment is so necessary, and it is what you get in schools. And it's so unlike most workplaces. Most people don't understand what it's like to be in a school because there is a comradeship, there's a network of support that you do have there. So, that's one thing that, you know, you would hope that any person heading out into the teaching profession, and part of what your roles are is to really support those guys out there, because it's, yeah, it is a really different experience if you haven't come from that kind of work before.

Siobhan:

And speaking of that collegiality, I'm thinking to myself if I was in a staffroom with you, so if we were working together and I knew you were a children's author, I would a hundred percent tap into your skill set. So, I want to ask you, from like a professional learning side of things, do you have any top tips for teaching imaginative writing to students?

Yvette:

OK. Well, you know, it's really interesting and it's also very hard to, it's a very hard thing to just go in and teach creativity. And even as a writer, talking to my senior students about creative writing, it's often hard to put into a practice how it works.

Siobhan:

Or a formula.

Yvette:

There is no winning formula, I personally don't think, and anyone who tries to get creativity out of their students is going to fail in that way. I personally think so much of writing is, it is like running a marathon and it is about training every day. And the more you write, the better you become. The more you read, the more exposure you have to structure, to narrative, to understanding form, type, text. That to me, and that was one of the wonderful jobs that I had, which we'll get to, where I was at the Premier's Reading Challenge. Wide reading to me is the basis for all sorts of creativity. And without that, it's very hard for a student to grapple, or come up with a plot or a character, or to immerse themselves in another world. That's where the exposure comes from, whether it's what they're watching, playing. Any kind of immersion is really wonderful. But I just think there's not a formula. It's all about trying things out. I know that's a really hard thing to say, but I think it's a really, it's not concrete. To me, as a writer, I became better once I did it more regularly. And I've done 36 'Ella and Olivias'. I mean, if I don't get 30. Sometimes I start the next one. I'm like, 'OK, let's start from scratch.' And sometimes, OK, I know what they're doing and that's a very simple structure with those books. But really, it is about taking the leap and pushing yourself out there on the ledge. I know that that's not easy, but it's exposure to reading texts and reading books, and reading anything you can get your hands on, that gives you that basis to step into a creative space. But it is very hard, and I really applaud. And I never taught extension English, and I really applaud those teachers that do, because they're really teaching incredible skills to those students who are the next generation of storytellers. And some of the works that you see, the exemplar works coming through, it is incredible what students are doing. And, gosh, what an amazing option, to be able to create a long form piece of work.

Siobhan:

I would often say to my students, like, 'Chances are,' particularly when I was working at the selective high school, 'a lot of you could probably write a better narrative than I could, but I'm here to give you the tools and show you exactly how to pick out the best parts of narrative and structure and plot and context,' and things like that. And I found that when I gave students quality pieces of literature and asked them to emulate a part of that, the work was incredible. I'll never forget, I was reading 'Boy Swallows Universe' by Trent Dalton, which has now been put into a great series on Netflix, but there was a passage that just captivated me, and I thought, I knew my Year 11s and 12s would love this. It was when, graphic warning, it was when the boy's finger is about to be chopped off. And I said to my students, 'How is the author building that tension, building that visceral imagery within the scene to really draw your emotions out?' And we read that passage together and I talked about what I loved about it. They added in what they loved about it. And then I said, 'Okay, go. You need to write from a moment in time that builds that same amount of tension.' And every piece of writing was just incredible. I was like, 'Amazing. I've created 24 new Trent Daltons of the future.'

Yvette:

Well your job is done, Siobhan. You can relax. That is amazing. Because that book is extraordinary. I've never read a book like it. The series was fantastic.

Siobhan:

I was hooked the whole time.

Yvette:

It's just amazing. And I agree with that. And I would also recommend the same thing to people that, and even the younger writers out there. Often when I'm running a writing workshop, it's about the same thing. Think about the aspects of writing in your favourite authors. Don't try and do something that you don't like, you don't want to do. Go into that form, go into that world, go into that thought process. And I think a lot of it, and it's funny, because the older you get, the less likely you are to do this, is just about letting go and actually letting it out. And I do think the best form of writing is one that is not, you know, it's not bridled in. But having said that, that's where the teacher's role comes in to really bring that out and to polish and, you know, find those gems, so. But it is such an inexact science because it, really, creativity just comes from the heart, in a way, but training does help, and practising does help.

Shannon:

And I align, yeah, to like the whole practise element, particularly coming from the primary space. I think the sort of, the connection between reading, obviously, and writing is so palpable in the early years, but having a lot of students who potentially are not inclined to, you know, we're living in such a digital world, they're not inclined to pick up a book. It may not be their first sort of thing that they want to do with their downtime. So, I found that building in that time, particularly when my students would come in after recess or lunch, or even first thing in the morning, I would do 'Drop Everything and Read’. We would also do 'Drop Everything and Write’. And building that routine with my students, that we would do like, you know, we focused a lot on like Sizzling Starts and we'd base it off our novel, and the students loved it. Like, I'd have a 5-minute timer and we'd do 5 Sizzling Starts. So, it'd be a minute timer and we'd be like, 'Go.' And it was this real, like, exciting thing. And then they'd share in their partners, with one another, then they'd share in a group of 5, and then eventually, if they wanted to share or they read someone else's in the class that was a great idea, or that they loved, they would ask permission from the student to then share it with the class. Because I was trying to build that community that's a safe space, you know, we can practise our writing. They just loved it.

Yvette:

I love that. And I think so much about writing, it is a solo thing, but why does it have to be a solo thing? I actually think co-writing is something I've just only recently learnt how to do, so how can we even expect our students to do it if we're not doing it? I had to put aside a lot of, I've been working on a project with a writing partner, and you do have to put aside a lot of your own hubris and thoughts and, you know, ego to get on with that. But whereas kids just do it, they just get with it. Whether they're playing a game and recording, you know, a narrative over the top of whatever the game they're playing and putting it on YouTube. I mean, we all know that's happening. They're already doing it. They're already using those skills which we need them to have in the workplace eventually. So, I love that. I think it is very, Sizzling Starts are amazing. The hardest aspect is to get to the next sentence and then the one after that and then follow through. And that's where the students, like, once they have those tools, you know, that's where the stories come alive. And, you know, I do a lot of judging of writing competitions and things like that, and you can see the students that have put in the time, whether it's in Kindy, like I've judged K to 2, and there are some strong narratives in there, let me tell you. And the ultimate irony is that even when I'm writing a shorter story, like an 'Ella and Olivia', the structure in those books actually did teach me a lot about writing longer form stories. Because if you can't nail that in two-and-a-half thousand words and have the resolution, have the complication, have the resolution, you know, you're not going to be able to attack a bigger work. So, the students already know that. Even, you know, in Stages 2 and 3, they're experts on that. So, it's just about practise as well.

Shannon:

Yeah, absolutely. So, moving on from your time within the classroom, what was sort of your next steps with the department?

Yvette:

Well, my next step was into Teach NSW, which was an amazing experience, because, probably like the team that you're in, it was a very, it was an exciting space to be if you like to connect with students or connect with people about to graduate, or supporting them into their journey into teaching, because we need great people to come in and teach in public schools in NSW.

Siobhan:

That's part of the purpose of the podcast too, I suppose, shining light on the multiple experiences of different faces around the public school system, you know? It's like easy to say, 'Oh, the NSW Department of Education,' but it's about humanising the profession as well, and showcasing and storytelling people within the organisation. So, yeah.

Shannon:

And I think people often think, you know, traditionally, you become a teacher and you, you know, you're in the classroom day-to-day, but there's a whole world of opportunities across the NSW Department of Education that, as a teacher, there's a space and place for you, whether it be, you know, having a stint as a curriculum adviser, for example. Or, like you just mentioned, working with Teach NSW and supporting, you know, the recruitment and retention of the new wave of teachers that are coming into the profession.

Yvette:

Yeah. And it was a real privilege to do that. I mean, you're talking to people who are making big decisions about their lives, or going back to study. I mean, I moved back home to live with my parents when I was 32 to do the study. I mean, that was a big decision that I made, and that's the call I made at the time. It was the right one for me. But people are making decisions with families. They're going to try and see what's ahead for them. But I think my career in the department has been multifaceted. I've worked in a lot of different areas, done some extraordinary things that I never thought were even possible or were happening out there. And the more you see, the more you learn. The networks are vast and are still, you know, the networks keep building and it is a big organisation, but the support networks are there. And, you know, after my time with Teach, I went to work at The Arts Unit. And anyone who knows The Arts Unit, they put on Schools Spectacular, they run all the incredible arts projects. So, I ran the Premier's Reading Challenge. I just want to say there was no conflict of interest at that time. My books were not on the Premier's Reading Challenge list at the time. But that was a really, a new space for me as well, to work with real experts in the arts, in music. You know, anyone who's got a student in dance or in music, or a parent who has a child in a band, or, it's an incredible hub of experts, really incredible experts running statewide programs. And that's when I really did get a sense of how vast our student network is and how varied their needs are. And running a program like the Reading Challenge is another wonderful opportunity. It gave me a lot of creative freedom. I had an incredible team there. We started book festivals online. I feel like we were the forerunner of that, and that was even before learning from home. But we did do a lot of, we had a lot of authors and illustrators who were involved with the project. And they do that because they want to be a part of public education. You know, they are passionate about reaching readers, and we always had their support. So again, that's another wonderful group of external stakeholders that we have in the department, because they're in our schools every day, talking to students and working with teachers. So, we had those people to draw on. And it was another great time to step into that role. And, you know, that role is a really important one, because, personally, I'm passionate about wide reading and the power of wide reading, and that being a really incredible literacy tool to develop the skills that we need for the next generation. And the more widely you read, you know, the better your literacy is going to be, basically.

Siobhan:

And do you have a favourite memory from your time in these roles? Is there something that really is front of mind for you?

Yvette:

Look, we did set up a huge online festival, which we interviewed lots of authors, and we did it on camera. And it was a real forerunner, I've got to say, I'm pretty sure the writers’ festivals would've taken a leaf out of our book. But what actually we did do, we did it in conjunction with DART Learning, who were a partner at the time.

Shannon:

Another fantastic resource for teachers.

Yvette:

Heaps of stuff we did with DART. Incredible team there. And I have worked with them over the years in a number of guises. We did that project online, we ran a book festival for the week. We had huge numbers. We had a studio, we had the satellite set up. It was awesome. I mean, we did a live cross to Jeff Kinney, who writes 'Diary of a Wimpy Kid'. That was heart in your mouth stuff. I don't know. That was a real precursor to doing interviews overseas, guests in the classroom. That was cool. And he just made time for us. I mean, it was just, that's what happens when you have the power of something like the Reading Challenge behind you. Guests suddenly appear.

Shannon:

And the accessibility as well for students across the state

Yvette:

It's awesome.

Shannon:

Is amazing. Like being able to have those videos on a platform. You know, DART Learning is so sophisticated with their virtual excursions, et cetera. Like every child across NSW in a NSW public school can access that, which is so cool.

Yvette:

And I've done a lot of projects similar to that, with big scale. And we've kept the audience. Things don't sit behind firewalls. They're open to all schools across Australia. And that is the benefit we have of being a big organisation and the biggest education department. And to know that students were tuning in across Australia for various things that we've managed, that, to me is, you know, what we do, and what we're actually all about. So, the scale of which we've done things with DART, you know, and another big project we I worked on was the Invictus Games Education Project, which I went to work for the curriculum team, and that was a huge event. We bussed in students from across the state. They came in to watch the Games. We worked very closely with the Games Foundation and the state government to make it happen. And we ran a live TV show, hosted by students every day from the event, the venue at Olympic Park. And that was a huge event, like huge scale event that was student-led, and we delivered, like, we interviewed athletes every day, we had incredible activities. It was just one of those things. Like sometimes people don't know how to say no to me, and that's a benefit, that can be an advantage. And I'm just like, 'This is a vibe.

Shannon:

She's an ideas woman.

Yvette:

Let's go with it.' And honestly, that has been a little bit of my mantra, is, 'Just go forth and do it.'

Siobhan:

So, how do you feel that your skills in the classroom have actually prepared you for these roles?

Yvette:

Well, I think the thing is you really, you need to understand how different learners learn. And you can have all that passion in the world, but really, what the students do teach you, and what your colleagues teach you, and your head teachers of English will teach you, is that you get better. You get better with each year. I mean, my first year, there were people that would remember, I have some serious memories of, you know, actually not knowing how to get past a roadblock with my students who did not want to read 'Lord of the Flies', because that, let's face it, is a very dense book. And to get Year 10 students who don't love reading to get to read the ‘Lord of the Flies' is, you have to just think out of the square. You need to start to challenge your own assumptions of what you want to do in the classroom, and take different roads. And I think that's why teachers, to me, are the most practical problem-solving people you could ever come across, because there's nothing that they really can't handle.

Siobhan:

Problem solvers and decision makers.

Yvette:

Yes, you do. And you have to go with your gut sometimes and you also have to back yourself. And that's what your students need you to do, because you need to take ownership of this space and where you see that learning going, and to show them what the finish line could look like. I think that was, in my school, that was particularly one thing that I learnt very quickly, that that's what I needed to do. And to be honest, I think my students taught me a lot. Like, they taught me a lot about themselves, their lives, being teenagers today, or that was then, but also, learning styles. And that's one thing you learn on the job, is accommodating different needs, understanding different needs, doing further education if you need to, to understand differentiated learning models. Like, that is your call, but also your school is there to support you to do that because that's what your job is. So.

Shannon:

Absolutely. So, you've transferred a heck of a lot of skills.

Yvette:

Yes. And it's been busy and wonderful, and I've really, the people that you end up working with along the way, it's a team effort, it's never a solo thing. You have incredible people. There are people I call on every day in my current role at the ITD, Information Technology Directorate. I went there after working at Invictus, and the role has changed and morphed over the years, but I've been working with a group of innovative teachers who are from, you know, all different walks of the classroom life, bringing technology expertise, which was not something that I have, I'm an English teacher. I really did not have that competence or confidence. And so, what I've learnt over the years is really trying to support beginning teachers with technology usage in the classroom, and retaining all those incredible things that bring you fired up out of uni to take into the classroom. And that can be a disconnect, because reality bites, and sometimes that is just, you know, that falls by the wayside. But really, in the world that we are moving in, we ask our students to be digital citizens. We are already in that space. And it's about actually empowering them to use the technology the best way that they can. And that's currently part of what my role is at the moment with ITD, so.

Shannon:

So, you've held quite a number of roles within the educational support staff, which is wonderful. How do you feel those roles have directly impacted, you know, our teachers within schools? You touched a little bit on it there about supporting beginning teachers specifically, but you know, I suppose when we, and we did sort of lead to it earlier, allude to it, sorry, when you're in a school as a teacher, you kind of see that as, you know, this is my whole sphere, this is my school, this is what I'm doing. Now that you've sort of seen different snippets of teams and you've helped pockets of teachers across the state, how do you feel that support has impacted the teachers?

Yvette:

Yeah. I mean, it's hard. School life is busy. You know, days are chock-a-block, but sometimes it's just about helping a teacher to make a very small connection. 'OK, let's get you set up here. Let's look at how you could embed this into your lesson.' You know, we made something. It's really interesting, like, necessity is the mother of invention, and during learning from home, we made a program called 'Everyone's an Author', which was a 10-part series.

Shannon:

I know the one. I used it with my students.

Yvette:

Yeah. And basically, it forced us into going and exploring and looking at creating a package of learning materials that's easily accessible. It does not sit behind a firewall, it is there for everybody to use. It's a video exploring an element of writing with an author online. I'm sorry, I know I'm incredibly biased in this space, but.

Shannon:

And they were bite-sized videos, which I loved.

Yvette:

Bite-sized.

Shannon:

And they were fun. My students paid attention to it.

Yvette:

And you've got lesson plans and ideas. And every single part of those lesson plans is about embedding a simple aspect of technology into developing your student's voice. So, for instance, if you're an iPad user, using GarageBand to create a soundscape. We worked with an incredible former public school teacher, Kirli Saunders, who's an award winning poet, children's author. She gets students to create an Acknowledgement of Country in verse, then to record it either on your device or your computer. Podcasting. I mean, podcasting is our new kit that we've released at T4L, at Technology 4 Learning. And the podcasts students are making out there is just incredible. Now, these are really tangible, real-world skills that they're out there doing. They're going to be fine. It's like we've got to keep up with them, essentially. So, it's all about actually, you know, showing the teachers how to use the technology, you know, whatever, it could be a video, it could be a magazine, there's lots of different resources, and stepping them through something like that. Say for an English teacher, podcasting, you might not know anything about using mics or computers, or using the tech that might be sitting in your labs. It's about actually just trying to bring it back to what's possible in your classroom that's really going to cut through for your students. And, sorry, I know I pulled podcasting off the top of my head, but we've just done a whole unit, a bunch of resources around podcasting, and there's some fantastic videos that are there for people to use, whether you have a podcasting kit or not. Many schools already have podcasting equipment in the school, or they're just using devices to create podcasts off them. I’ve seen some incredible things, like some schools are creating audio dictionaries of language and culture in Indigenous language. Looking at some of the schools, like Bermagui Public School's created an incredible website called ‘Growing Yuin Languages’, where they've gone out to community and the students are talking to Elders of the community, collecting language, housing it, recording it, making those connections and having a repository of information. These are the incredible things that are happening.

Siobhan:

I can see that everything that you're doing in your role is filling a gap and a need, so that the students and the schools are equipped to be able to produce these quality resources, and, quite frankly, just amazing hands-on learning within the classroom.

Yvette:

Oh, it is. But sometimes we're totally guided by them as well. Like, we'll get wind of it and, 'Okay, let's go in and find out how they've done what they’ve done.'

Shannon:

That's it, right? Look into the gaps. Yeah.

Yvette:

And let's actually see if we can model this for another school. You know, communities of schools are very important out there, and you know, in places where that's not available, that's hopefully what we can step in and support with. But I think that's everybody in the department's driving force.

Shannon:

I was about to say, that's the whole Education support staff, you know, just providing that need. Because I know, can speak from experience, as teachers, time is like the golden nugget. So, having people who are, you know, on our team and providing those resources and creating them behind the scenes for us to use and be able to go forth and take them straight into our classroom, it's really, really wonderful to hear that happening.

Siobhan:

So, before we wrap up, I'd just like to know a little bit about perhaps who in your career has inspired you?

Yvette:

Oh, look, it's really interesting. My teachers, many of whom are still associated with the department, if not working in the department. My maths teacher, he was one of those wonderful teachers that helped you make sense of what you were studying. And he's a wonderful friend and mentor. And many of my teachers from high school and primary school, they have been a huge part of the reason why I went into teaching eventually, because we know how dedicated they are. And you know, the fact that they're still in the classroom, if not just out, is a testament to what they have brought to their students and showing you what's possible. And, you know, I went to a musical high school. It was all about music and concert band and bands, and those musical teachers that took us on tours to the North Island of New Zealand. Like, these are things you can't forget. And just demanded the rigour, and also showed you what's possible. And they're still out there. So look, I can say, honestly, all the colleagues that I've worked with along the way. I mean, you can always reach out to them. They're only a global address book email away and you can reach out to them. The team that I currently work with, you know, they've taught me a lot. And you know, I work in IT. I mean, I'm an English teacher working in an IT system. If that can happen, anything's possible.

Shannon:

Lift the ceiling, I say.

Siobhan:

I love it.

Shannon:

Because you have worked across such different, such a variety of roles within the one system, you know, the department, is there a key piece of professional advice that you've received or taken with you along the way?

Yvette:

Look, I think networking is the best thing that you can do. One of the things that I ended up doing in my, maybe in one of my first couple of years of teaching, I went to a Google Educators Conference, and that is actually how I met people that I have still been working with recently, now, today. They were the connections that I made. I got to, you know, thankfully, my principal signed off at the time on that. But it's those pieces of professional development that you can go to connect with people. Connect with people in your area. You know, if you're passionate about something in particular, like, start an online book club, do whatever you need to do, you know? There's millions of ways for us all to connect. It's about just keeping those connections going.

Shannon:

Yeah, absolutely.

Siobhan:

Thank you so much for joining us for another episode. Yvette, we've really appreciated your insight. I personally have been really inspired by your journey and have taken away some key advice about writing within the classroom. So, super excited for our audience to hear this.

Yvette:

Thank you for having me.

Siobhan:

Thanks for tuning in, and we'll see you on the next episode. Bye.

Shannon:

Thank you for tuning in to the Teach NSW Podcast where we explore the dynamic world of education. Don't forget to follow, like, and subscribe to be notified when new episodes become available. You can find us on social media via our handle @TeachNSW. Until next time, keep learning, keep teaching, and keep making a difference. This podcast is produced by the Teach NSW Team from the NSW Department of Education.]

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