Siobhan:

I'd like to acknowledge that this episode of the Teach NSW Podcast was recorded on the homelands of the Darug People. I'd like to pay respect to Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander peoples listening to the Teach NSW Podcast today.

Opening Credits:

Welcome to the Teach NSW Podcast, a podcast by teachers for teachers. I'm Shannon, and I'm Siobhan.

Siobhan:

Hi everybody, welcome back to the Teach NSW Podcast. Today we're joined by a very special guest. I'd like to introduce to you Daniel. Daniel is a science teacher who is working on the lands of the Dabee Tribe of the Wiradjuri people. Daniel originally was living in the South Coast and moved to the Central Tablelands with the assistance of a teach.Rural Scholarship. He now sees himself as part of the community and is hoping to live there and be a part of that community for at least the next 15 years. Welcome to the podcast Daniel. It's so great to have you.

Daniel:

No, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Shannon:

Thanks for joining us.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Well we might kick off with a little bit of a segment we like to call Teacher This or That.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

The first one I have up here is, would you rather run an experiment or run a PE lesson?

Daniel:

Oh, that's a good one. Because, I've always had a soft spot for PE and sports. I would probably, even though I'm science trained, experiments, a lot can go wrong. So, I think I'm going to have to go PE, because there's less likely of something blowing up.

Shannon:

Yes.

Daniel:

Yeah, I would have to go PE on that one.

Shannon:

The safer option. What about you?

Siobhan:

Out of curiosity I would just love to run a science practical. I think that it requires a lot of skill and thought behind it. And then a lot of thinking on your feet as you're actually running the experiment. But I have really fond memories in high school of all my science experiments with my teachers. So I would say science experiment.

Shannon:

Yeah, nice. Okay. I would also say science experiment. I feel like as a primary school teacher, anything I could turn into an experiment, I was like, 'Yes, we will do this. It will be experimental.’

Daniel:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shannon:

So I would pick that option.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Next one is, teaching Year 7 or teaching Year 12?

Daniel:

Year 12.

Shannon:

Okay.

Daniel:

Yeah, without hesitation. I think you just get a bit more reward in terms of your lesson and they're at the tail end of their time at school. Even though like Year 7's, usually they come in and they're a little bit scared. So they're typically well behaved. Definitely Year 12 I would say. Yeah.

Shannon:

What about you?

Siobhan:

I love teaching my senior classes just as much as I love teaching my junior classes. I think they each bring a separate personality trait, benefit to the lessons and things like that. So yeah, I definitely would say Year 7. I know you can't really chime in, but perhaps we can reframe for you. Kindergarten or Year 6?

Shannon:

This is an interesting one because I always thought when I was doing my degree I was like, 'Ooh, I don't think I'm cut out for Kindergarten.’ But I had some time on Kindy, and I feel like I often say everyone should spend some time in Kindergarten because you just learn how to get some of those foundational skills.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

But it's the same with Year 6, the same as Year 12. It's just completely different. They're about to graduate primary school and go off into the big bad world of high school. Or I shouldn't say big bad world, but big world of high school.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

And it's just a totally different relationship I suppose?

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

But I enjoy the independence, I think, of the Year 6's.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

Definitely.

Shannon:

All right, next one we have is a, work best before school or after school?

Daniel:

Before school. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I even like to get to school a little bit earlier.

Shannon:

Okay

Daniel:

Just prepare for the day and just make sure, like, even 20, 30 minutes before the usual workers get there. Just to get on top of everything. But yeah, I'd have to say before school.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Yeah, definitely.

Shannon:

I often say I like the quiet of the morning time.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

I feel like the morning is a nice time to sort of sit and think about your day prior and like the where to next. I feel like my brain is most, it works best in the morning time as well, so I understand that.

Siobhan:

And top tip from me, become besties with your GA, your general assistant. Because my GA used to turn on my heater for me in the morning at school

Shannon:

Awww!

Siobhan:

In winter time. He used to come in and turn the heater on for me and he'd say, 'Siobhan, I left the heater on for you so you're nice and toasty when you get in there', so.

Shannon:

Love that.

Siobhan:

Yep, that's my top tip if you're a before school kind of person.

Shannon:

Love.

Daniel:

Yeah, good idea.

Shannon:

The final This or That we have is, coffee or tea?

Daniel:

Uhm…probably neither.

Shannon:

Oh!

Daniel:

Yeah, I’m not really,

Shannon:

Okay.

Daniel:

Not really a drinker of either.

Shannon:

You've really thrown a spanner in the works here.

Daniel:

Yeah. I don’t know if you can say neither, but.

Siobhan:

Yeah, you can.

Shannon:

Sorry, not an option.

Siobhan:

What's your liquid of choice?

Daniel:

Probably just water.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Oh, okay. Not like a sparkling?

Daniel:

Nah, just

Siobhan:

Hot choccy.

Daniel:

Nah, see, not even.

Shannon:

Oh!

Daniel:

Throughout the workday, just water.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

If I had to pick I'd probably go a coffee,

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

But I don't have like a coffee order. I get it probably a couple times a year and it's,

Siobhan:

Little treat.

Daniel:

Yeah, it’s usually a servo coffee for a dollar.

Shannon:

Nice.

Daniel:

And it's just, yeah, cheap. Yeah.

Siobhan:

I like that.

Shannon:

We like. All right, well thanks for participating in Teacher This or That. We would love to know a little bit about Daniel, where you started, how you got yourself into teaching, and how you found yourself moving to the Central Tablelands of NSW?

Daniel:

Yeah. Well I started at University of Wollongong a few years ago now. Started off doing a Bachelor of Science. So I did that for three years. When that was coming to the end, I thought, 'What am I going to do with this?' All the other people in that degree were doing PhDs and research and stuff like that. And I just couldn't see myself doing that. I already did three years of it, so I was like, 'I want a sort of career change here.’ And had a good chat with my wife and we just sort of sat down and just thought about what I guess my qualities are and I guess what profession I'd be good at. And she mentioned teaching, and yeah, we just sort of went with it there. So I started doing my Masters of Teaching, which is the two-year course and just loved it, yeah. For me it was the practicals that really made me enjoy it and made me actually go, 'This is the job for me.’ No one really likes the theory, but when you're actually in a school, in the setting, putting all your practice to work, for me, that was my favourite part. And then from there, halfway through my master's, I just looked at any scholarships the department had just to help out a bit. I went for a few and managed to get, yeah, the teach.Rural Scholarship.

Siobhan:

Wonderful.

Daniel:

Which was pretty good. So they put a bit of money towards my university degree and guaranteed job straight out of university if you're willing to travel, which we were. So that's how we ended up, yeah, where we are today, so.

Siobhan:

I think it's really great that you went out and sort of sourced your own opportunities for scholarships and things like that. But for anyone who may not be aware, the department has a whole suite of scholarships. So for those who are interested, you can simply just search, 'Get paid to study', even adding in ‘Teach NSW’ at the end of that. And it will pull up a, yeah, like I said, a whole range of scholarship offerings that we have.

Shannon:

Yeah. For future teachers.

Siobhan:

Yeah. Which constantly evolve to suit the needs of our school contexts.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

So we're always looking for high demand subject, teachers in high demand subject areas, like yourself in science.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

I'd be interested to think about or pick your brain about, you studied a Master's of Teaching and obviously majored in science because you did your Bachelor of Science.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

Are you just science code, like trained?

Daniel:

Yeah, so it's junior 7 to 10 science

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Daniel:

And then because of my bachelor, I've coded for biology and chemistry,

Shannon:

Oh, wonderful.

Daniel:

And I'm just short of earth and environmental as well. So, yeah, yeah. That's how it works. So it covers me 7 to 10

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

And then whatever you've majored in for your bachelor, that's I guess where your main focus is.

Siobhan:

And the sciences are so diverse. For those who are interested you can go

Daniel:

Oh exactly.

Siobhan:

The physics route and things like that too, I think on top as well. What's your favourite science subject or unit of work to teach?

Daniel:

Yeah, mine's biology.

Siobhan:

Biology. Yeah.

Daniel:

Yeah. For me, I always call it the easy science, even though it's very difficult still.

Shannon:

Easy to some I would say.

Siobhan:

That would make me feel more confident as a student in your class.

Shannon:

Yeah, absolutely.

Siobhan:

Like 'Yeah, I'm doing easy science.’ Yeah.

Daniel:

Yeah. But like, it's a subject that most people can understand quite well.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

And it's usually, it's about how living things work. So, even if you don't have an interest in it, it's still handy to know because we're all living things so you got to have a rough idea as to how things work. But chemistry for me, that's my probably second favourite.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Mixing chemicals and stuff together is always fun. But yeah, there's a few cool experiments which are good in there. Yeah, it's just trying to, I guess, promote any science, but for me it'd be definitely biology.

Shannon:

Yeah. So biology's a sweet spot?

Daniel:

It is.

Shannon:

Yeah, absolutely. It's funny, because like primary school, primary school teacher life, I, Living World was one of the units within the science curriculum for Stage 3. And we would always do maybe the life cycle of maybe a plant or some, whatever you decided to be looking at, at that point in time with your students. And crowd favourite was always growing a plant from a seedling.

Daniel:

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Shannon:

They just, like, the magic you would see. The students they'd come in and they'd check their little plants every single day, and seeing it come to life, the pure joy.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

And even me, like I'm not really a plant person. You know, I'm getting better with age, taking care of the plants. But yeah, it was always just the most exciting thing for them to be able to see it starting to grow and a real living thing coming to life.

Daniel:

Yeah, yeah.

Shannon:

So I resonate with that.

Siobhan:

I like that. Science is cool. Science rocks, guys.

Shannon:

We like science.

Siobhan:

So you did mention about your move, you know, the idea that you were open and willing to travel. I'd be really interested to hear about your thought process behind being so open to essentially going anywhere in the state. And perhaps some advice to those who are maybe, you know, toying with the idea of going rural and choosing that lifestyle.

Daniel:

I think I'll start with the advice. So for us it was, I guess to make the decision, we had to know what rural Australia was like. So before we started even looking into it, every holiday we had, instead of going overseas to other countries, we thought, let's just try and drive inland and let's just see what it's like.

Shannon:

Explore the backyard.

Daniel:

Yeah, exactly.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

And we always had a family farm near Goulburn in a little town called Taralga and we used to visit there a lot when I was quite young. So I always had that idea of what country life was like. It was just my wife I had to try and convince that it's a good setting and it's a great way of living. So I think the advice would be to go and check out all these country towns and see what they have to offer before you definitely decide on it. Just basically suss out the area before you go there.

Shannon:

Mm.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Daniel:

And just see and picture yourself living there. And for us it was a little bit on affordability as well. Like Wollongong, it's getting quite expensive to buy a property down there. Even though all our family's down that way. So for us it was like if we move out west, it's a little bit cheaper, a little bit more affordable, and makes us probably start our family a little bit quicker, so.

Siobhan:

Same quality of life, right.

Daniel:

Yeah, yeah. Oh exactly, yeah.

Siobhan:

And actually, a few programs came to mind when you were talking about that. So if we are, you know, heeding advice to those who’ll go rural, there are a few that come to mind for me. There's the Rural Professional Experience Program.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

So students, pre-service teachers on their placements can choose to do a rural placement and the department can support them to do that. And, our favourite, the Beyond the Line Program (probably shouldn't say our favourite) and,

Shannon:

Little bit biased.

Siobhan:

And the Beyond the Line Program, which takes 50 pre-service teachers out on a tour of selected regional, rural or remote schools to give them that feel. So I think what you’re saying, that whole try before you buy mentality, is part of your advice.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

I think that it's good for our viewers to know that there are plenty of options out there

Daniel:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

For those who potentially are even a bit more apprehensive to move off the bat, you know, like you did.

Daniel:

And there's certain schools, I think they have different point systems as well. So you can go to, like, if you don't want to go too far out, there's a lot of closer schools that are still, like where we are is only two and a half hours to the city.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Daniel:

So you can do it in a weekend, you can come down and I think we're a 4 point school. So, it builds up your transfer points for later on.

Siobhan:

It does, it comes with its own set of benefits and incentives.

Daniel:

Yeah, yeah.

Shannon:

Absolutely. And people might be curious that are listening about the incentives and benefits that the department do provide. So on the Teach NSW website, if I can get my words out. What state are we in? We are in NSW, everyone. Teach NSW. We do have incentives and benefits on our webpage and information about what you're talking about. You can see different schools that are in rural or remote regions and you might be curious about what incentive points, transfer points that they have with them. There are things on there like stamp duty.

Siobhan:

Relief payments.

Shannon:

Relief payments.

Shannon and Siobhan:

Rental subsidy.

Shannon:

Relocation support as well. So all of that information is on our webpage so people can head over and have a little bit more of a look

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

In more depth.

Daniel:

Yeah, yeah. It's worth checking out, definitely.

Shannon:

Yeah. Yeah, I really, it's cool to hear how you sort of went out and explored to try and see what it would be like beforehand. But.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Could you take us back to, you know, packing up your car and

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Sort of heading out. What was that like, and how was your, once you got there, what did it feel like when you landed yourself?

Daniel:

Yeah, like I guess any move, it's a bit daunting but especially going pretty far away from home. And for both of us it was our first time moving out of home. So, for me and my wife, but yeah, it was quite emotional, quite sad saying goodbye to mum and dad. Leaving with the truck and trailer full and heading off. Like, they helped us move and what not as well. But yeah, there's a lot to take, a lot to sort of, I guess, bring with you. But I think when we first got there, yeah, probably the first week or two we were finding our feet. Again, still unpacking boxes, and going for just drives around the town just to see what is actually here again,

Shannon:

Get your bearings, yeah.

Daniel:

And make sure, there's the IGA, there's the bakery, there's the post office, there's the pub if you need it. But yeah, it was just sort of, it's like exploring a new world. So the first few weeks was a little bit like uneasy. But once you find your feet and once you start working and get that stability, yeah, we both loved it. And we rented for the first six months. After the six months we bought our first house.

Shannon:

Wow!

Daniel:

Yeah, it's five years later. So yeah, we straight away, the price to pay off your mortgage is cheaper than your rental payments, so.

Shannon:

Wow. Yeah.

Daniel:

Out there. So it was a no brainer.

Siobhan:

Set your roots down.

Shannon:

Absolutely.

Siobhan:

Pretty much straight away.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

And there also is, on benefits and incentives as well. There is options for teacher housing. Like you can do similar to what you did and go and find your own source of accommodation.

Daniel:

Exactly.

Shannon:

However, there is teacher housing available in some locations as well.

Daniel:

Yeah, yeah.

Shannon:

Which you can also find information on our webpage about.

Daniel:

Yeah, exactly.

Siobhan:

I'd be interested to hear now, you know, yes, your first few weeks. Exciting, daunting.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

But I'd be interested to hear about how the school and the community welcomed you. Or what you did to start to feel like you were a part of that community?

Daniel:

Yeah. Well when we were actually moving out there, it was just after the 2019 bushfires.

Shannon:

Oh wow.

Daniel:

So we were driving up there and the community was in a pretty bad state after that. Like everyone was quite emotional and stuff as well. So there was a lot of events around that, like local meetings and stuff. So through the school as well, a lot of the kids and a lot of the staff were affected, like lost a lot of animals and a lot of land. So there was already this positive vibe where it was just after the fire, so everyone was trying to build up

Shannon:

That camaraderie.

Daniel:

The community again. And it was like pretty much the perfect time to move there, because everyone was just trying to build back the positivity in the community. So there was events happening, all the staff at the school were very welcoming. Yeah, assisted with moving and everything.

Siobhan:

Oh wow.

Daniel:

And took me out and showed me all the local places. And climbed the local hikes, went up to Rocky Mountain and climbed up there and yeah, it was just, it was awesome. I joined all the local sporting things with all the teachers and yeah, we just, we slotted in perfectly. And they're all so accommodating and yeah, just a typical little country town, I like to say.

Shannon:

It sounds like as well, from what you are saying, you obviously went in with quite an open mind.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Like you wanted to join in the community and be a part of things. So, you know, did that look like joining the local sporting team? What did you end up doing?

Daniel:

Yeah, definitely. I think, yeah, if you go into a town like that with the mindset, not talk to anyone,

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Not socialise, then it will be very difficult. But yeah, having that mindset going in, going, 'What can I do? Like I want to sort of get involved and help out.’ So yeah, for me it was joining the squash team first,

Siobhan:

Squash.

Daniel:

Local squash comp.

Siobhan:

I didn't pick you for a,

Daniel:

No.

Siobhan:

What do we call them? A squasher?

Daniel:

Yeah. I'm not sure. I don't want to say the wrong term, but yeah, I don’t know, I'm not sure, but yeah, that was the first one.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Daniel:

We have a team at the school that's actually state champs in NSW.

Shannon and Siobhan:

Oh wow!

Daniel:

Yeah, so the actual.

Siobhan:

Are you the coach?

Daniel:

No, I'm not, no.

Siobhan:

Ah! Should be.

Daniel:

When I went there it was my first year ever playing squash so I had no idea. I've never played it before.

Shannon:

Yeah, yeah.

Daniel:

But yeah, they roped me into the local competition, which was good fun. And then from there it was then touch footy, local touch comp.

Shannon and Siobhan:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Then the rugby league team and it just sort of built from there. There's tennis, but I'm not really a tennis player, so.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Yeah. I like squash where you can smash it as hard as you can, whereas tennis, if you do that, it goes way over the nets. Yeah. But for me it was the sporting things.

Shannon and Siobhan:

Yeah.

Daniel:

But there's a lot of other community groups. And there's a rotary club and there's all these other, there's a library, you can head up there. And they've just got all these amazing things there. But for me, I just tailored to sport because, yeah.

Shannon:

Yeah. That's what you're interested in.

Daniel:

Yeah, exactly.

Shannon:

And so you’re trained in science, but have you taught outside of your science faculty, have you taught in other areas?

Daniel:

Yeah, yeah, a lot. Did a lot of PE, a lot of tech mandatory in Year 7 and 8, like woodwork and metalwork. And Year 9 and 10, I did timber and metal, and teaching that now this year as well. So, 9, 10 timber and a fair bit of PE again and PASS (Physical Activity and Sports Studies). But yeah, I guess the benefit to that is then you can build up accreditation in those subject areas.

Siobhan:

Did you say you’ve taught a little bit of special and inclusive education and learning support as well?

Daniel:

A little bit, yeah. But probably not enough to meet the quota.

Shannon:

Yeah. Yeah.

Siobhan:

But you, like,

Daniel:

Yeah, just.

Siobhan:

Even gaining that valuable experience,

Daniel:

Oh, exactly.

Siobhan:

I think that's something that you can't always get in your metropolitan schools.

Daniel:

Yeah, exactly.

Siobhan:

So I think having that benefit of, you know, a small rural school, where if you feel like you're malleable enough to jump between. Which obviously,

Shannon:

And you're interested in it.

Siobhan:

Yeah, you're very lay laid back, easygoing. Like I can see that you’re that, you know, go-getter within the school who's willing to put your hand up for any opportunity. I'll try it once and see if you like it.

Daniel:

Yeah, definitely.

Siobhan:

I think that that’s more so possible in a school like yours,

Daniel:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

Living in those rural communities.

Daniel:

Definitely. Yeah. And for me, I think that was another reason to choose rural.

Siobhan:

I think it'd be really interesting to hear from you as well, if, during your move, you had perhaps any misconceptions about what you were getting yourself into

Daniel:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

And then were those, perhaps, myth busted for you?

Daniel:

Yeah, so the main one is, the main one that I heard from everyone, is country towns are very cliquey. And unless you're from that town, you're not going to fit in or they're not going to, I guess, accept you. And it sort of felt like that in that first week or two potentially. But after that we were like, no, definitely not.This is, yeah, definitely a myth busted. So to anyone that I ever talked to about it, like every country, well I don’t know about every country town, but all the ones that I've been to

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Daniel:

And especially the one we're in now. Yeah, very welcoming people, very laid back. Which is I think why I fit in so well.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Very calm and just, yeah, go with the flow. Like they don't stress, there's no panic. It's, the air's different out there. Like it's just, yeah.

Siobhan:

Do you know what? It really is. Because even when we went to a wonderful school in Goulburn, the students were giving us a tour around the school. And we all sort of stopped and I went, 'Oh, it's fresh out here.’

Daniel:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

Like the air is different.

Daniel:

Oh, it is.

Siobhan:

You actually get a different. You feel, I think,

Daniel:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

Light and really refreshed out there. It's just, yeah,

Daniel:

Oh definitely.

Siobhan:

Until you experience it. Like for me, I'd never been to a rural school before, or even a regional school as well. I think you have to see it to believe it.

Daniel:

Yeah, big time.

Siobhan:

Right.

Daniel:

And, one of the cool things was, it took me about six months, I think when we first bought our house and we went out at night time and I looked up and just looked at all the stars.

Shannon:

Oh, yeah.

Daniel:

And I was like, 'Why haven't I done this before?'

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Like it was amazing. You can see everything, and there's no smog or anything from the city.

Shannon:

No light pollution.

Daniel:

There's no light pollution.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

It was just like, wow, you can see everything.

Shannon:

As you say that, we went on one of the Beyond the Line Program study tours. So we took a group of university students from across different universities across NSW. And one of the schools we went to, one of the areas was Coonabarabran.

Daniel:

Oh yeah.

Shannon:

And we went to the observatory there and some of the students had never left the metropolitan region of Sydney, that were on that study tour. And when we went and looked up at the stars and just like, like you said, no light pollution, just completely different. They were just

Siobhan:

In awe.

Shannon:

Really in awe. And they were like, 'It's so quiet.’ Like it's just a totally different, like they loved it.

Daniel:

Yeah, exactly.

Shannon:

And we already had two students who have up and left metropolitan Sydney from that experience of going out and experiencing these regional, rural or remote schools on that study tour over a week, have gone and relocated.

Daniel:

Yeah, yes. And we had a similar thing where we brought Year 10's and Year 12's into Sydney for a couple nights. And for a lot of them, probably three quarters, never been to Sydney before.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Never been out of our local area, so

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

For them it was an amazing eye-opener.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

So for a lot of the kids, they go and do their tests, their driving tests, and there's not a traffic light.

Siobhan:

Right.

Daniel:

And then when they drive,

Shannon:

Oh my goodness!

Daniel:

They drive to the city,

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

And they have like 20 in the span of two km . They’re just like, yeah. Like a few of them have told me stories where they've driven down to Sydney on the holidays and they've come back and they're like, 'Never again, sir. Never going there again.’.

Siobhan:

Too many traffic lights.

Daniel:

Yeah. And just, like, yeah, it's a completely different way of living.

Siobhan:

I guess that sort of leads me back into those myths because typically from what we hear is, you know, kids living in rural NSW don't have the same opportunities as metropolitan students. Is that something that you've seen? You know, perhaps that myth was dispelled for you when you were there? It sounds like you've taken your students like on sporting trips, excursions, Sydney, you know, trips to Sydney.

Daniel:

No, that's it. There's still, if the kid wants, or the student, wants those opportunities, they're going to chase them no matter what.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Daniel:

But yeah, I guess for our small school we offer a vast range just as any other coastal school would, I guess. But yeah, I think definitely it's just the whole point of teaching in a rural school is trying to make sure that they got the same opportunities as every other student in the state. And I think we do a really good job of that at our school. And I think that's something most rural schools would try to achieve.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

So I think it's a really good segue into asking you what impact do you feel like you're making or having on a day-to-day

Daniel:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

In the school environment? Do you have any special stories to share or specific moments that come to mind when I say impact?

Daniel:

Yeah, I don't want to sound like I've got a big head.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Daniel:

But I'm hoping I've made a really good impression on them.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

But yeah, for me mainly being a year advisor the last couple years and seeing the year group through. So they left, 2023 was their final year, and I guess it's a position that that was my first year group, so I was still a little bit unsure as to what a year advisor does. So I was finding my feet with them and trying to assist them through their HSC. I hope I could show them the calm qualities that I had and, 'Try not to stress with your upcoming exams, and if you need anything, just ask for help.’ So I hope that those qualities and those attributes as, in myself, as a role model and a potential leader for them to look up to helped them get through their Year 12 studies and stuff like that. Because I had a lot of them coming up to me at the end and they gave me a nice little gift, a little book, and they all wrote a personal note in it.

Siobhan:

That's beautiful.

Daniel:

Yeah, I remember we all got teary at the end of the year.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Like it's a sad moment.

Siobhan:

I have my own experiences.

Daniel:

Yeah, yeah. And for me that, I guess solidified, that I'm doing something right.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Like, if all the kids are wanting to write a nice personal message and tearing up and giving you a hug goodbye.

Shannon and Siobhan:

Yeah.

Daniel:

And even now, like a few of them send me messages and they're like, 'Oh thanks for everything, sir.’ Like, it's, yeah, it's quite emotional. It is, yeah.

Siobhan:

You sort of forget how much they look up to you or pick up on your little quirks, your interests, or things like that. I mean like,

Shannon:

The impact you have.

Siobhan:

Yeah. Me personally, I taught this lesson once to my Year 12s and it was this concept in English of textual integrity, like, the value of a text for all its parts.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

And to me the concept was quite boring. So I decided to explain it in an interesting and unique way by using the concept of a KFC Zinger box.

Daniel:

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Siobhan:

Because,

Shannon:

Relatable content.

Siobhan:

Relatable content.

Daniel:

Exactly, yeah, exactly.

Siobhan:

All the parts in the box are great, you know? Your burger, your chips, your potato and gravy, your drink. But as a whole it comes together and it's just a (kisses), chefs kiss, perfect meal, right? And they really got it. They were like, 'Oh, so I get it.’ The characters and the themes and you know, the narrative arc and the techniques that the author used, it actually comes together and that's what makes a novel good.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

'Wow, Miss, that's really good.’

Daniel:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

Great. Awesome. Thanks so much. Close the door. See you later, everyone. Let's revisit textual integrity later. A year later when I saw them off, they actually gave me my gift inside a KFC Zinger box.

Shannon:

Oh my god. I love that.

Siobhan:

So they wrapped up my gift in the little wrapping and things like that. And it's, I forgot about that lesson until that point. But to them it was like a really special and unique moment. So I think talking about, you know, lasting impact or the change that you can make or just the little nuances of your job. You sort of look back and you go, 'Ah, they, I care as much about them as they care about me', and that's really special.

Daniel:

Yeah, definitely. And that they made it hard on me because they wrote my memorable quotes.

Siobhan:

Oh, yes!

Daniel:

And stuff like that.

Shannon:

They're so funny aren't they the way they pick things up.

Siobhan:

I know.

Daniel:

And they wrote in there 'just quickly' and they had it in apostrophes. And I was like, 'What do they mean by that?'

Siobhan:

Do you say that all the time?

Daniel:

And then every lesson.

Siobhan:

Every lesson?

Daniel:

Every time I say it I'm like, 'Oh, I've got to think of something.’ I'm like, 'Just quickly, Year 7.’ And then I'm like, 'Oh, I can't say that.’ How else do I say, 'Year 7, look at me.’

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Like that's a term, that they.

Siobhan:

But that's who you are and that's what you do, and that's what you're known for, you know?

Daniel:

And when I saw it I was like, 'What is this?' And I think I asked one of them, I said,

Siobhan:

'What's just quickly?'

Daniel:

'What does that mean?' And they're like, 'You say it a lot, sir.’ And I was like, 'Oh okay.

Shannon:

We.

Daniel:

And then yeah, they've ruined it for me now. So every time I say it I'm like, 'I've got to think of something different.’

Shannon:

Oh no, look at it as a positive.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Like I totally resonate with that. We used to do like character traits when we'd be studying a novel for English. And we always used to do like inferential or literal traits, for example.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

And I remember we did an example, like I did what a good one looks like on the board with this, like we co-constructed as a class. And I was like, 'Oh, so who should we do?' And they're like, 'Well let's do you, Miss.’ I was like, 'All right.’

Siobhan:

Here we go.

Shannon:

Put my beautiful stick figure on the board.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

The artiste in me.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

And they started saying, 'Okay, so literal. Always guaranteed to say that's fab.’ And I was like, wow, I feel really

Siobhan:

That's fab.

Shannon:

Seen right now. So same thing, like I used to always say, 'All right fab, that's fab'. 'Great', 'Fab'. Everything. And I was like, 'I have to stop saying that. I have to find another way of saying that phrase.’

Daniel:

Yeah, yeah. But it is a positive thing.

Shannon:

They call you out.

Daniel:

Yeah, it's something they're going to remember forever too and

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Yeah, and now I’ve got to try and think of another term to say instead of 'just quickly’.

Shannon:

Literally.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Do you, I'd be interested to hear, I love asking this question, if you had sort of a mentor or someone throughout your schooling years that supported you and guided you as a student?

Daniel:

Yeah. When I started as a graduate teacher at our current school, there was Mr Vaughn and Ms Johnson. So they were the two main ones that I guess sort of assisted the new beginning teachers through and spent a lot of hours pushing us to do our accreditation and get on top of that nice and early. But yeah, they were just sort of, again, they just made the transition easier. And as it being my first full-time job, just being able to have them to go to and just say like, 'Hey, this happened, what do I do?' And just knowing that they're 100% going to give you the best advice. Like you can go to them with anything and yeah, offer any support that you need, so, yeah.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

It's handy to have as a teacher.

Shannon:

A very supportive environment.

Daniel:

Yeah. Yeah.

Shannon:

I'd love to hear a little bit about working at a smaller school. I myself have worked at different sized schools, but majority of my career has been at a very large school, close to 1,100 students.

Daniel:

Yeah, wow.

Shannon:

So how does it, like, working at a small school, do you feel like you just have ample opportunity to build connections across the board, 7 to 12, or what's your experience like?

Daniel:

Yeah, I think so. Like I said, about 200 kids, 7 to 12. So, not too many. It's a lot easier to remember all the names. But yeah, I think, it's just different to your coastal schools having so many. So being able to know every student by name and actually remember all of their qualities and 'Oh, this one likes football. Oh yeah, that one loves horse riding or that one loves whatever.’ It just makes it easier to build that rapport.

Siobhan:

Taylor Swift, probably.

Daniel:

Yeah, yeah. There's a lot. A lot of teachers as well went to the concert

Siobhan:

There you go.

Daniel:

So we were short on that day.

Shannon:

You'd have to up-skill in that area if you weren't already a Swifty.

Siobhan:

You do.

Daniel:

Yeah. But yeah, it's just, I guess you build that rapport quicker, you build that respect with the kids quicker and I think it's a very different setting. But you sort of feel, you sort of feel like you have more opportunities and stuff like that because there's, you don't feel as busy I think.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Like the workload when it's report time, I got my biggest class is probably 20 and smallest, if I had a senior class, I don't have one this year, but you have about four or five.

Shannon:

You'd also probably know your families very well because you may have, you know, siblings throughout the school. So local families you'd really get to know over the years.

Daniel:

Yeah, exactly. Yep. And you’ve got to know a little bit about your community, a little bit about families. So it's, yeah, it's figuring out all those dynamics and figuring out, I guess, how each family works and I guess how each student learns as well. Yeah, to tailor your lessons towards that.

Shannon:

Yeah, amazing.

Daniel:

Yeah, yeah.

Siobhan:

And what's next for you in your career? Like how do you, what do you see yourself doing in terms of, you know, classroom teaching and things like that?

Daniel:

I just want to sort of build up my, I guess repertoire and my skills as a teacher.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Daniel:

So that's why I don't mind going out and doing a little bit of everything to build up the resume. And probably next goal would be looking at maybe a Head Teacher - Science position.

Siobhan:

Yeah, great.

Daniel:

Yeah, so there was one at the school last year and me and the other teacher went for it. And it was a good eye opener as to, I guess, how the applications work and

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

I guess what you need to have completed before you can even become a head teacher. So going for that in my fourth year teaching was just a good experience builder to go, 'Okay, well if that's something I'm aiming towards, this is what I need to achieve.’ So I guess it's

Siobhan:

Yeah, you can tailor your professional development towards that so that you know what you need to achieve in order to reach the goal.

Daniel:

Yeah, definitely.

Siobhan:

That's amazing.

Daniel:

Yeah, so that's probably the next goal at the moment is tailored towards, yeah, any professional learning that will help you get better, I guess, skills, towards a head teacher position in the future.

Shannon:

Yeah. It sounds like from what you've mentioned before, your wife has found a network as well.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

And I think for some people who are considering moving, who may have a partner that they're going to move with, do you have any advice for them? You know, watching your wife sort of

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

You know, cement herself within the community as well.

Daniel:

Yeah, I guess the advice would be just do it. Like just, you don't know until you try it.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

And you can have all the fears in the world, but until you actually move, and once you're there it's a lot easier.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Like in hindsight, going, 'Oh, 80% of the town's over 60, we're not going to find anyone.’ That was my thought. Within the first couple of weeks, like, we were fine.

Siobhan:

You had your network?

Daniel:

Yeah. You find your place eventually. So yeah, for my wife that was another fear because she's never really done rural before.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

And getting there, she was working for the first year or two, so she made friends through her work as well. And yeah, I guess it's, the only advice would be literally just to give it a go.

Shannon:

Give it a go.

Daniel:

You have to. And the worst thing that can happen is if you don't like it, just move back home.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Or, yeah, if there's any issues, if something's not working out you can always move again. But I think you got to just sort of bite the bullet and, yeah, push through that. I guess, the stigma around the rural towns and push through the nervousness and the fear and give it a go. Because, like I said, when you try it and when you actually go and see an area before you move there too, you'll actually, it makes it a bit more at ease to make that move possible. So yeah, I think for my wife it was my main fear, but yeah, she overcame it quite easily.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Daniel:

And yeah, we're both loving it at the moment, so.

Siobhan:

I'm sold. Where are we moving to Shannon?

Shannon:

Oh my gosh. The opportunities.Get the list.

Siobhan:

Get the list going.

Shannon:

Give us the fresh air and the

Daniel:

Exactly.

Shannon:

no lights.

Siobhan:

Just the stars.

Shannon:

The beautiful stars in the sky.

Daniel:

No traffic.

Shannon:

Yeah, no traffic, no traffic lights, you know?

Daniel:

Yeah, yeah. Two minutes from work, for me, that's like,

Siobhan:

Yeah, that's insane.

Daniel:

I used to ride my bike to work sometimes because I was like,

Siobhan:

Why not?

Shannon:

A bit of incidental exercise.

Daniel:

Yeah, it's not even a kilometre, but I thought,

Shannon:

Yes.

Daniel:

It's all right. I'll just tell the kids, 'Yeah, I'm riding from 15 km out,’ and they all believe it and I'm like, ‘Yeah yeah.’

Shannon:

Yeah, how do you find, you know, living in the same town that you work in?

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

You bump into your students

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Often, I imagine?

Daniel:

A lot. Everywhere you go there's a student or an ex-student.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

At the local IGA, there's about four or five

Siobhan:

That work there.

Daniel:

From the last year that I was year advisor for, so it's a good catch up.

Shannon:

Oh.

Daniel:

See how they're going, how's uni, how's this?

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

And yeah, it's good for them too to give back to their community who's given so much to them. But, yeah, you definitely do see a lot of them out and about which, I kind of like, I think it's a good thing.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

And the kids get to see you in a different way of light, too. But yeah, I mean, if you don't like that you can always try and find an area a little bit further out.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

But for me a big thing was that time to get home. Especially if my wife, with two boys, I was like, and no other family to help out.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Daniel:

We've got to stay close.

Siobhan:

You can't really beat one minute can you?

Daniel:

Exactly.

Shannon:

No, it couldn't be any closer, really.

Siobhan:

Best as it could be.

Daniel:

Yeah, exactly.

Siobhan:

That's good.

Shannon:

Amazing. Well, I have one more question.

Siobhan:

Yeah. Shoot.

Shannon:

How would you like your students to remember you?

Daniel:

Good question. I don't know. I think I would just like them to remember me as a person they could approach. A person they were comfortable around.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Definitely a person that they looked up to and saw as a role model. But basically, I just want them to look back and go, 'Thank you, sir, for helping me get to where I am today.’ So, for the classes that I've seen through to Year 12 and the year group, the marks don't matter. The report comments don't matter. It's them getting to where they want to go. And for a lot of them in a small town to, again, have probably had that idea of, 'Oh, there's no opportunities here.’ Probably three quarters of them are at university now studying a degree they want to do.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Daniel:

And the other quarter are doing an apprenticeship or working locally and doing something they're interested in, so.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Daniel:

I hope they could all look back and just say that, 'Yeah, sir.'

Shannon:

Sir was in my corner.

Daniel:

‘He was,’ yeah. ‘He backed me whenever we needed it and he helped me get to where I am today.’ So, yeah.

Shannon:

Proud teacher moments all around.

Daniel:

Yeah, yeah, I know, and it's still early in my career. I've probably still got a long stint ahead of me. But I think when I'm nearing the end that's, I guess, what I want all my students to look back on and think, yeah, when they think of me.

Shannon:

Yeah. I resonate with that. Definitely.

Siobhan:

I actually have a few tears in my eyes.

Shannon:

Emotions are high today on the couch. Well I think that's all we have time for. Thank you so much, Daniel, for joining us. I think you've really brought a perspective that we haven't had before. And I've really enjoyed hearing about your experiences and your story.

Daniel:

Yeah, no, thank you again for having me.

Siobhan:

When we swing by your local town, we'd love to, not that you drink tea or coffee, but you know.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

We'll have a water, I may, I do enjoy

Siobhan:

We'd love to have a water with you.

Shannon:

A sparkling water.

Daniel:

I'll remember that.

Shannon:

Fantastic. Well that's all we’ve got time for. So thanks for joining us everyone. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.

Siobhan:

Bye.

Shannon:

Thank you for tuning into the Teach NSW Podcast where we explore the dynamic world of education. Don't forget to follow, like, and subscribe to be notified when new episodes become available. You can find us on social media via our handle @TeachNSW. Until next time, keep learning, keep teaching and keep making a difference. The Teach NSW Podcast is a podcast by the Teach NSW team from the NSW Department of Education.