Siobhan:

I'd like to acknowledge that this episode of the Teach NSW Podcast was recorded on the homelands of the Darug people. I'd like to pay respect to Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples listening to the Teach NSW Podcast today.

Opening Credits:

Welcome to the Teach NSW Podcast, a podcast by teachers for teachers. I'm Shannon, and I'm Siobhan.

Siobhan:

Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the Teach NSW Podcast. On today's episode, we are speaking with Alessandra. Welcome Alessandra.

Alessandra:

Thank you.

Siobhan:

Throughout Alessandra's career as a classroom teacher in Western Sydney, an international stint in the UK, and as a secondary literacy adviser for the department, she's built an exceptional skill set to support student literacy outcomes and improvement across NSW public schools. So today, Alessandra is joining us to share some key advice for improving literacy outcomes in the classroom. So if literacy is top of mind at the moment, then this is the episode for you.

Shannon:

Welcome.

Alessandra:

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Shannon:

You're so welcome. We're glad to have you here. We're going to kick off today with a little bit of a This or That. So it's a teacher edition. The first one I've got is, pen and paper or devices in the classroom?

Alessandra:

Pen and paper.

Shannon:

Okay. Go on, tell us.

Siobhan:

Tell us more.

Alessandra:

Oh, I like the physical act of it. I also think the students tend to be really impressed by themselves when they've gotten something down on paper, and I like the organisation of it. I like the physical workbooks. I like being able to go around and jot down some comments on their books, so.

Shannon:

Yeah, beautiful. What about you, Siobhan?

Siobhan:

Yeah, I'm a pen and paper person as well, teacher. I think that I used to always tell my students like, 'Until the HSC is on a computer, then I want you writing in your books.' But a funny observation of mine is that the students come in, in Year 7, and, obviously, in primary school, it's been drilled into them like, 'You have this size margin, the heading at the top, and then you've got the date on the right hand side.' And I don't know if it's just me, but I was like, 'Oh, I don't mind, as long as all the information's nice and neat in your book, then it's fine.' But yeah, it's just funny when they come in and they're like, 'Oh, Miss, is my margin okay?' I'm like, 'Yeah.'

Alessandra:

'Do we underline our titles?'

Shannon:

Those expectations are really set.

Siobhan:

Yeah. Interested to hear your thoughts from the primary perspective.

Shannon:

I think definitely there's a place for both. My personal preference would be devices just for ease of convenience. I've spoken before in previous episodes about how much I love OneNote, for example, and I just love the usability and the collaborative nature of it. However, I think that when you're working particularly in a group, I think you can't go wrong with a big piece of paper in the middle of the page. And trying to jot all your ideas down, it really sort of builds that team mentality and those connections. But I also love looking back at their English workbooks. Particularly, most of my experience has been on Stage 3, but I feel like it's almost like a journal, like a work of art, to see the progression from the beginning of the year to the end within their English books is so exciting, especially with their writing.

Siobhan:

I think that, also as an English teacher myself, just coming from our classroom context, I think that pen and paper serves them really well in a lot of different tasks, like creative writing, and brainstorming, and groups, and things like that. But yeah, certainly a place for device. I'm not anti-device, just wanted to clarify that. But yes, if it was my This or That, off the top, I would say pen and paper.

Shannon:

This is a poor This or That from us because we're like, 'Oh, you know, place for both.' We're supposed to pick one. We're breaking the rules. Now, do you prefer reading during the day or reading at night before you go to bed?

Alessandra:

Oh, both.

Shannon:

Reading different types.

Alessandra:

Really reading anytime, anytime. Yeah, but I am definitely a night reader. I use it to, well, it lulls me to sleep. I like reading to my children every night, so yeah, definitely reading all the time.

Siobhan:

What are you reading at the moment?

Alessandra:

Oh. I just finished a novel called 'Prophet Song’, which was amazing, and I think the next one we're reading is, oh gosh, there's one called 'Burial Rites' that I'm reading for a book club right now, actually.

Shannon:

Oh cool.

Alessandra:

Yeah.

Shannon:

I love the idea of a book club. I have lots of really good intentions to read lots of books, and then somehow life gets away from me and I don't stick to it, but I'd love to be better. I'm good on holidays, but during the week, it's just, yeah.

Siobhan:

Yeah, I would say I'm a binge reader. I go, especially like during term time, I sometimes wouldn't pick up a book, and then holidays, I'm like, 'All right, we're locking in,' and I'm getting 5 out of the way. Yes.

Alessandra:

I'm a big audio book person. So yeah.

Shannon:

Oh, yeah.

Alessandra:

Anything that keeps me away from a screen, especially in this role, there's a lot of screen, so, yeah, audio book, physical books, definitely.

Siobhan:

I think it's actually a really important question that we could ask our students as well. Making it a habit of asking them what they're reading or telling them what you're reading. I used to have a section on my whiteboard at school, and I'd be like, 'Miss is reading this,' and I'd write the name of the book, and then do a bit of an overview of what was happening as part of the plot and how far I'd got through that. And it just sort of created a culture of loving reading in my classroom. So yeah, I think it's actually quite important, and ties in well to today's conversation.

Alessandra:

It does, yes.

Shannon:

Our last This or That today, sweet or savoury?

Alessandra:

Savoury.

Shannon:

Ah, okay.

Alessandra:

Yeah, I'm not at all big on sweets.

Shannon:

What's your go-to savoury snack?

Alessandra:

Cheese.

Shannon:

For every meal.

Alessandra:

Really just cheese.

Siobhan:

Cheese, day and night. Yeah.

Shannon:

Love that. Siobhan?

Siobhan:

Oh, I'm a sweet, yeah, sweet treat all the way. Like, I can't go through my day without giving myself a reward of some sort of sweet treat.

Shannon:

Oh absolutely. It's like the minute the last bit of dinner has touched my lips, it's like, 'Oh, sweet treat time.'

Siobhan:

I deserve this. At the moment it's a Kit Kat Chunky. Yeah, and has been for quite some time, so I still haven't broken that habit or found a new sweet treat of choice, so, yes.

Shannon:

I'm just obsessed with anything dark chocolate mint, would be my go-to.

Alessandra:

Yeah, that one's pretty decent, but no, cheese.

Siobhan:

Cheese is good too. Cheese, 10 out of 10.

Shannon:

Well, that's it for This or That. Thanks for joining us for that round. It's like a game show almost. We would love to know Alessandra, can you tell us a little bit about your journey from going from teaching in Western Sydney to becoming a secondary literacy adviser with the Department of Education?

Alessandra:

Sure. So I suppose I was very lucky to land this wonderful job in this lovely school in Western Sydney. And I started in English and then moved into EAL/D and I fell in love with the idea of language and literacy and the practice of teaching it. It also gave me the opportunity to be inside so many other classrooms in so many other subject areas. And I got to witness many different teaching styles. I got to witness so many different strategies, and I had these really rich, robust conversations with teachers of all levels of experience. And I learnt a lot about different content areas. And I became really focused on the process of reading and writing and how students learn to read and write. Then I went overseas and taught in England for 4 years in a school very similar to the one that I was in, in Blacktown was where I was. And over there, they had just started their new curriculum. So I went on the curriculum journey with them. And while I understand how curriculum change is really daunting, I think I was fairly prepared for it because I knew I was going to have to learn new syllabuses anyway. So I went over there, I was there as an English teacher. Over there, it’s split into literacy and language. So, I got the best of both worlds. I got to teach the novels, but I also got to teach the language and the literacy, and I really had to upskill, and went on this journey with the school. I watched and partook in that whole school improvement journey that they were on as well. And when I came back to Australia, I landed back in the same school that I had started in.

Shannon:

Wow, full circle.

Alessandra:

Yeah. And my first conversation with the principal was that I really wanted to pursue literacy and she was very accommodating. And so, I went through a number of different roles and responsibilities in the school. I was head teacher for a while. I was a literacy coordinator. I became the curriculum reform coordinator. I was also in EAL/D still, so I was still able to be in a lot of classrooms. I had my Stage 6 English classes and I got to practise and experiment and look at what worked for student wellbeing and for that preparation for students beyond school. And then I pursued the literacy adviser role, got it. And have landed in this absolutely glorious team of these enthusiastic, incredibly talented, very, very, very clever advisers, and coordinators, and leaders. Yeah.

Siobhan:

Well, I'm impressed. If I was a principal in a school, I'd be like, 'I would like you in my space, please.' Something that really stood out to me is you were talking about the link or connection between literacy and wellbeing. We could talk about that in a bit more depth in a second, but I just wanted to tap into, I suppose you have such a vast experience across a range of settings, how has that actually shaped your approach to teaching literacy or your perspective of what the attainments of students in literacy should look like?

Alessandra:

Well, I suppose I went into teaching, and very quickly, I realised, especially in the area in which I was teaching, and with particular students in particular classes, I knew that it wasn't enough to focus on their wellbeing alone. And it wasn't enough to focus on their literacy attainment or their content area attainment alone. So I, and as EAL/D teacher, I was able to do both in tandem. I developed my skills very specifically there, and I know that literacy is the way that we're able to effectively communicate with other people, right, that's what it's all about. And students are able to practise that and hone that skill in schooling, but then they must use it effectively for the rest of their lives. And so, like I said, teaching is a huge privilege, and I recognise how powerful and important a responsibility I have in shaping their ability to be able to communicate for the rest of their lives. Many of my students, I'd say most of the EAL/D students I've had, have been refugees or have had refugee-like backgrounds. And I know, and I can see, and I have experienced how detrimental it is to their wellbeing to not be able to communicate.

Shannon:

Yeah

Alessandra:

And they are such impressive students, honestly, because I say to them, 'Listen, I'm still mastering one language.'

Shannon:

I was about to say.

Alessandra:

But you guys have,

Shannon:

Multiple.

Alessandra:

Some of them have 5 times as many words as me, because that's been their journey to come to Australia, to come to Sydney. So, I have just applied that across every student I've interacted with, and I try to bring that into all of the work that I do so that teachers and leaders carry that through as well. If we really consider that literacy is the successful, or how successful somebody is in being able to communicate, it's so inextricably linked to wellbeing.

Shannon:

Yeah, I love how you said that because, realistically, literacy is everyone's business. And no matter what, coming from a primary school space, teaching across all the different KLAs, like literacy is inherently weaved into absolutely every subject that we teach. But across a secondary school setting, it can be you're a science teacher, that's what you're teaching, or you're in the TAS space or what not, but literacy is across the board because, you're right, we have to communicate in some way. And in order for students to understand, you know, steps within the experiment, they have to have that foundational level of literacy.

Siobhan:

And I feel like, myself, I never actually made that connection, like you saying it now, I've obviously perceived that connection within my classroom. You know, a student of mine is struggling with reading or writing, and therefore, the level or application that they put into their work might not be what I would expect. But I've never actually thought about that link. I don't think I've actually stopped to think about the connection between literacy and wellbeing. So, I think that you've really honed in on the why. And it actually is really powerful to me because a lot of times you're in the classroom and a student's like, 'Why are we doing this? What's the reason?' I think if I'd heard that from you, I would've been able to stand up confidently in front of my class and be like, 'Well, actually.' And I have before being like, 'Do you think that when you leave school to go into a trade, you're going to have to do a job interview or write a CV? All of these things are linked and linked to literacy, and I'm here to help you with that.' So, yeah, I think for me, that's quite eye-opening, I suppose, that perspective.

Alessandra:

Cool, job done then.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Shannon:

I think, also, like what you're saying, and as well touching on like the primary space, I remember, as a beginning teacher, I very much tried to compartmentalise things. I was like, 'At this time we're doing English, and then we're doing science, then we're doing maths.' And look, I can't tell you why I was programmed that way. I was just trying to find my feet, and I did, I compartmentalised everything. And then, once I had a little bit more experience, and I had such a fantastic mentor who I've spoken about before on this podcast. But I remember she was talking to me about doing comprehension through what I was teaching in science. So, we were looking at Living World in Stage 3. So we were looking at life cycles and things like that. And there were all these passages that I got from these scientific journals, and we were doing, she was like, 'Do your comprehension, but you're still learning your curriculum, your content, sorry, at the same time.' And I was like, 'Genius. Of course I can do that.'

Siobhan:

Two for the price of one, sign me up.

Shannon:

But it was just like, sometimes it's there right in front of you. And similar to your realisation that you're just talking about, it just takes someone for you to listen to someone with more experience or who has sort of honed in knowledge in a certain area for it to click for you. Because we're trying to do 27 million things at all times often as humans, it's nice to sort of sit back and reflect and have these kinds of conversations.

Alessandra:

Yeah, definitely.

Siobhan:

And so, Shannon mentioned it before, in that saying, literacy should be everybody's business. I'm interested to hear on your perception of that statement.

Alessandra:

Well, yeah, I think rather than should be, it just, it is.

Siobhan:

It is.

Alessandra:

And it is whether you identify it that way or not.

Shannon:

Whether you like it or not.

Alessandra:

Yeah. And not even whether you like it or not, but whether you even recognise it or not. Teachers are literate beings. They're standing at the front of the classroom and they are communicating, using the literacy that they have, that they've taken on. How successful they are in getting that content across is down to their own literacy level. It's the exact same for the students because we don't just teach at students, we want them to respond. Right? So, the literacy is how effectively they're able to respond as well. So, it's not a should be. It's that it just is. And it's again, one of those things that is inextricably linked from the content. So, we're not understating it when we say that all science teachers are also teachers of literacy. All maths teachers are also teachers of literacy. All geography teachers are also teachers of literacy. It is not one person's responsibility alone because there is no way to educate without literacy coming into it and weaving in between every single word that we say and every word we expect back from students.

Shannon:

Absolutely. I'd love to talk a little bit now about your time in the classroom and particularly some key strategies or something that you did with your students that really sticks with you, even now that you pass on to beginning teachers, colleagues, things like that. Things that have really worked for you.

Alessandra:

Yeah. Okay. So, this is where a few literacy strategies and EAL/D strategies kind of blend. So, one of the biggest things is paying attention to gradual release of responsibility in the classroom. So moving from that very heavy on the teacher responsibility and the controlled and modelled aspects of a particular practice. Something, a particular skill that you want students to be able to develop. So, if I give the example of writing, I know and I saw how powerful it was for students if I answered a question for them, a writing question for them in real time, where I was thinking aloud the process as I was doing it. They could see, and hear, and witness how I was putting each phrase and sentence together, why I would go back and change things, how I would go back and edit. How a sentence wasn't done until I had made sure that it carried the meaning across that I needed it to. Only then, once I had done that, and once I had satisfactorily shown my students that this is something that you are able to do and that I can do, so I know what I'm talking about and I've just shown you the process, would I transfer into, okay, we're going to do one together. So then it would be that guided practice where, and dependent upon, differentiated to the level of need in the classroom, the level of student capability at the time, I would be using their ideas to be able to construct maybe the next passage together or reattempt another question. And then move into staggering and slowly providing students with more and more independent opportunities. So, it was really that they need to see one to be able to do one. But between see one and do one, there's so many things along the way. I was also really, really comfortable with jumping back and forward. And I did always try to foster this culture of students supporting each other. So, I think if you have a culture in the classroom where kids are unafraid to make mistakes or to respond because you've nurtured that really safe environment for them, you get so much more out of them. And I knew that the more that they were responding, the more that they were learning. So that was my rule of thumb.

Siobhan:

Yeah, and jumping back even to that sort of step one of the process with you modelling what a good piece of writing looks like, in that process, inherently, I am assuming, I would make mistakes as I'm writing. And then the students see that, and they see me correct my mistakes, and I can justify why. Why isn't that sentence working? How can I actually shift the words in the sentence or the techniques that I've used as part of my response to change and make it better? And I think that gets rid of a lot of the apprehension of students when it comes to writing, because they see, 'Okay. Well, Miss obviously didn't get a great, perfect sentence out first go. There were mistakes made along the way and she fixed them by doing this.'

Alessandra:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

So I think it really assists them in going on that journey of responding with you, I suppose.

Alessandra:

Absolutely. And I think, especially with EAL/D students, but with all students really, they tend to be a lot more confident with speaking rather than writing.

Shannon:

Yes.

Alessandra:

And the thing is, with speaking, we self-correct all the time.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Alessandra:

So, we are constantly editing and revising our language to get that meaning across. We comfortably do so, students comfortably do so. Showing them the process in writing, so that they can create something that's sophisticated, and academic, and carries, like I said, that quite complex message sometimes from different content areas, that's the prize. So, that's what I was always focused on.

Shannon:

I would, before doing any sort of writing, because I had quite a few little apprehensive writers as all classes do, I would start with a partner activity. We'd all be sitting on the floor and everyone would turn to their partner and we would do an oral first before putting any sort of pen to paper. But I even had students that when they used a pen, they were more apprehensive than when they were using a pencil.

Alessandra:

Yes.

Shannon:

And just little things like that. And what you were saying, it all comes back to knowing your students and how they learn. And I had those little ones who I was hyper-aware of, they felt that way because of whatever reason, you know, pen felt more permanent or what not. And we'd worked throughout the year to build up that confidence. It all links back to that wellbeing and building up that environment that they do feel safe, that they can take a risk. They can use the pen today, and it'll be okay. They can make mistakes and cross things out and things like that. It won't matter. But I found that once I switched what I was doing up when it came to writing and having that oral element really, really provided sort of, even the students that were a bit stuck with ideas in the beginning, it really helped them sort of ideate and get the creative juices flowing to be able to get that pen to paper as well.

Alessandra:

Yeah, absolutely. We've actually developed a range of professional learning on just that, so the whole

Shannon:

Amazing.

Alessandra:

Talk to Write strategies, Think-Pair-Share, and the importance of brainstorming. And all of the preparation that students need in planning to write before they even put pen to paper.

Shannon:

Amazing. Is there somewhere we can access that if we're listening to this podcast?

Alessandra:

Yeah, I'll happily provide the link. But there's a secondary reading and writing page

Shannon:

Fantastic.

Alessandra:

In literacy and numeracy where we've developed a range of professional learning that we're continuously adding to. As well as resources and little illustration of practice videos to model the strategies in the classroom

Shannon:

Amazing.

Alessandra:

Across different subject areas, so that way you can see them in action before you go in and attempt them. And we are

Shannon:

We can see what a good one looks like.

Alessandra:

constantly adding. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's the idea.

Shannon:

Gradual release of responsibility for us.

Alessandra:

Well, I do feel like my pedagogy, my practice was improved by witnessing so many other people, which was

Shannon:

Oh, absolutely.

Alessandra:

The luxury of the EAL/D role. That was, again, an absolute privilege that I just got to be in other people's classrooms, and I know that's not an option for every teacher in every school. So yeah, one of the key things that my team was very focused on was, well, how do we make sure that they know what this looks like when they can't see it for themselves to either affirm their own practices or give teachers the confidence to be able to take on practices?

Siobhan:

Yeah. And I think what's so valuable about this is the fact that it's not just for secondary English teachers. It's not just for primary school teachers who have literacy as part of their curriculum. This is relevant to anybody. In every subject, there's components of writing, components of speaking, components of reading. So I think for me, it really hones in on that idea that literacy is everybody's business, and here are the resources to assist you in that journey and making it a reality within your classroom. So, I love that first strategy that you provided. I'm wondering if you had any other strategies for embedding literacy across the curriculum as well that you'd be interested in sharing with the world.

Alessandra:

Sure. I mean, we've talked a lot about writing, but I think we could talk about reading.

Shannon:

Yes.

Alessandra:

So, obviously, reading is a part of every classroom all the time really. The bulk of the way that the students will gain knowledge is through reading. And it's actually the way that they pick up most of their, or are exposed to, most new vocabulary. So, there's a specific set of vocabulary that we tend to use in day-to-day language. That makes about 2,000, 3,000 words. All of the rest of the vocabulary in the English language, we are generally exposed through reading, and some of that is obviously quite subject-specific. And so, yeah, a major component of teachers’ roles in supporting student literacy is teaching them about that vocabulary. So, what it means, how to use it in context, how it may apply in different contexts as well, is just as important, and that exposure needs to happen several times. And so really, what that means is that, I know as teachers we all like to talk, but the power of teacher talk is really critical. So, I'm not sure how many people put two and two together when it comes to teaching reading, which some people think of as a silent act, especially in the later years of high school, but actually teacher voice, the pronunciation of the vocabulary, an explanation of the vocabulary during the reading, as well as that modelling of the quality reading whilst reading, is really beneficial for students and that's really supportive of their fluency. That was a real focus for me in school, was teaching about fluency and how critical it is, because ultimately, it's the act of students being able to interpret what they're reading whilst they're reading it. So not just reading something, usually, you would know, in that monotone, stilted kind of way.

Shannon:

A bit of intonation wouldn’t go astray.

Alessandra:

And again, if we're trying to be observant as teachers and take on those observations as really high-quality formative assessment of whether these students are becoming more literate in our classroom, as we're exposing them to new and increasingly complex texts, if we can't determine their level of fluency, it's actually a major limiter on our capacity as teachers to be able to determine, ‘Did they take that on board? Do they know what they're reading about? Are they going to be able to use that language when I expect them to use that language?’ And this is that inextricable link again between reading and writing, and the reciprocity that's required there in all of our strategies. But fluency is a major aspect of it. And again, this is where EAL/D pedagogy and literacy pedagogy really go hand-in-hand because, of course, we think about it all the time with EAL/D students, we naturally, as teachers, tend to pronounce things for students so that they know where the accent is, they know how the syllables work together. We tend to recast things. So, if they are mispronouncing something or they've read a sentence, or they've constructed a sentence that has the incorrect syntax, we fix it for them and we'll say it back to them. But we don't tend to do that as much with high school students, or our other high school students, and that's something that's really critical. So, there are a couple of key fluency strategies. So, the importance of that teacher talk, modelling the reading for them, especially when it's new and unfamiliar. Selecting and pre-selecting the language or the vocabulary that might be quite unfamiliar, and explicitly teaching that vocabulary. So that when they come across it, they don't just mentally skip over it, and go, 'Oh, I'll figure that out later.' Because the more often they do that, the more likely it is that they'll get to the end of the text, they haven't been able to retain anything, they haven't been able to chunk it in their minds. It's dunked into their working memory and then it's gone out. And so, when you expect, as a teacher, expect them to be able to draw it out of their long-term memory and be able to do something with that information, whether it's undertake an experiment, or complete a task, or go and do one of their assessments, or sit an exam and write these extended responses about it, it is so unlikely to happen. And so, when I had a lot of teachers saying, 'Well, I taught this. I don't understand. I taught this. They read it. We've even highlighted it. Look, they've got annotations all here. I give them a question about it. They can't articulate it back to me.' A lot of the time it's because they're not fluent readers or they weren't fluent readers with that particular text. And so that really had this flow-on effect in terms of their comprehension. Lacking comprehension means that they cannot engage with the text, which means that they cannot then respond to it. So, I liked being able to pick out the pain points. And yeah, there are some really good strategies around those. So, yeah, the importance of that teacher talk and reading aloud to the students, giving them the safe environment in which to read back to you. One thing that I'd really advocate for is that, if you've gone to the trouble of selecting a really good text that has the critical information that is needed for understanding that particular unit, that particular topic, that particular concept, why on earth would we read it only once with the kids? Repeated reading is such a critical aspect.

Shannon:

It's quite prevalent to, like an English lesson from my training in the school that I worked in, we would have a class novel that we were all studying. But my, I would take a passage from each of the chapters and I would use that for my grammar. I would use that for my spelling. I would use that for developing our fluency. We'd read it. We'd do choral reading altogether to try and, you know, I am a big fan of the arts, so I would love to dramatise the paragraph. So we'd act it out. We'd learn about how different emotions can be portrayed, the way you're reading things, to understand. And that sort of helped build their comprehension as well, but that is quite common to sort of pull a passage from the text and really delve into that, whether it be each chapter, a couple of chapters, depending on the book that you're reading. But I really love that element of deep diving into it and really getting to the crux of what was happening and basically like, this is what good authors do. How can we sort of replicate that and mimic their style of writing in our own writing and learn from that? So, it's a very, I really like that strategy.

Siobhan:

Yeah, I like both of those combined because you're talking about making the strategies, like they're not dry, essentially. You know, a lot of people correlate the art of reading with what you were saying before, Alessandra, like silence and quiet. And I think it's sort of turning it on its head and making it a bit more fun to get students to engage. Because one thing that I was thinking in my mind while you were talking about the strategies is, 'Okay, what about my students who are apprehensive readers and would not for the life of them read something out in front of the class?' So, I think that, yeah, making it fun and that choral reading, or working together, or that repeating after me. Making it a bit more fun and engaging, I think really does work in busting that apprehension. I actually used to have like a prop that I'd hand around the room and all the kids would be putting their hands up to use the prop to be the next one to read. So it's kind of even gamifying it a little bit.

Shannon:

Yes.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Particularly I'd say in the high school space, if you do have those more apprehensive students, who have kind of switched off from reading for pleasure, potentially, bringing that fun back in and engaging them in that way.

Alessandra:

Yes.

Shannon:

What advice would you give to teachers who are looking to enhance literacy within their classroom? Particularly those teachers who, you know, might not be in the English space? Like we've talked about different key learning areas.

Alessandra:

Yeah. Well, one thing is see if you can observe other people's practice. Now I know that we are, teachers are, all time poor. But if you can witness 10 minutes of another person's classroom, of somebody who you really trust, somebody who you hold in quite high esteem. Somebody who is, whether they're experienced or whether they're an early career teacher who's just brave, and on it, and willing to experiment. So, it doesn't have to be a particular head teacher. It doesn't have to be somebody who's super experienced. But yeah, being able to see what does and does not work and just constantly thinking about how you could apply something in your own practice. But there's so much that I think teachers can learn by observing, and then doing, and attempting. I think if somebody is keen to improve the literacy outcomes of students, and that's what they're thinking about, well firstly, they're on the right track because it means that they're already paying attention to it. I think a really significant part of it, my advice would be to recognise what they're already doing well and just try to build upon that. And to consider when in the classroom things are not working because that's the area to change. If the students aren't responding, if the students aren't engaging, if there's particular comprehension questions that they're not able to respond to, or if there's a high level of inaccuracy in their responses in some particular way, that's the avenue to go down. Literacy is huge. It's all-encompassing, and so it's very easy to be daunted and overwhelmed by it. So, I would make it manageable. I would make it targeted and strategic in terms of your upskilling. The department has so many resources that are available, and so that's a really good space to start. You can kind of plunder whatever they already have, always contextualising it to your own classroom. I highly recommend going and seeking out the illustration and practice videos that we've created. We are spending so much time going into classrooms where teachers are showcasing exemplary practice in literacy, in reading, in writing, in grammar use, to be able to bring it into these 2-to-3-minute snippets so it's not daunting, it's not overwhelming. I think, especially for teachers in different subject areas, if literacy is something that you're focused on, but it is something that scares you a little bit, please feel at home in knowing that it's intimidating. It can be quite daunting for everybody, because it is so critical, and that I am still learning every single day. There is constantly research in it that is coming out that, that you kind of need to build,

Shannon:

You're constantly evolving.

Alessandra:

Yeah. So if you are committed to just incrementally improving your practice, not doing these sweeping reforms, but incrementally building upon as part of your deliberate practice, you're set, really.

Siobhan:

And how do you think a teacher can stay up to date with the latest, I suppose, research and best practice in literacy education?

Alessandra:

Well, I mean, initially, I Googled a lot, but then I realised, and I read so many different journal articles, and I bought all of these textbooks, and so, that's what supplemented my knowledge. But actually, the department has done a really good job in consolidating that into some advice guides. So, there are reading and writing guides that are available that bring it down into bite-size information. And by bite-size, I mean it's more than enough to support your introduction into new practices. I would then always go to the reference list at the back. And if I wanted to do further exploration into a particular field of literacy, such as fluency, which, like I said, was definitely one of my passions, I looked at what the references were and I explored that. So that's always an option. AERO has some amazing resources. So, the Australian Education Research Organisation, has some amazing resources that we often reference within our resources. So that's a good option. But otherwise, in terms of what, sometimes it's not necessarily just the evidence base that you need, but you need the practices. So, if you consider that everything that we, in our team, literacy and numeracy team, put up are quality assured on the Universal Resources Hub, you know that all of those practices are evidence-based. So, you can learn about the evidence base through the guides that we create in literacy and numeracy. And then also see how they are enacted in practice to, yeah, learn more about the on-the-ground strategies right, because there's only so much time that we have. So we try to create the pathways in literacy and numeracy that allow you to get there. And again, if it's incremental and it's just something that you're consistently doing, perfect, because we're updating our resources with the latest evidence base constantly. It is a constant practice. We link everything to curriculum. We link it to ACARA's National Literacy Learning Progression. And so, there are plenty of tools that we use to make sure that it's kind of all brought together for NSW public school teachers. And so, yeah, if you use that as your avenue, I mean it's a big world. Literacy is a big world, so.

Shannon:

And I like how you said, 'Let's just make those little incremental changes.' Particularly for beginning teachers, pre-service teachers. As I mentioned at the beginning, I was compartmentalising everything. We just have to improve by that little 1% each day and just have those small steps. And then eventually, over time, you do develop your craft and you learn to find your feet. But that takes time, and we have to give ourselves the space and time to do that. I loved all those resources that you've linked. If you were listening and didn't get them down, we definitely will link them all in the notes.

Siobhan:

Put them in the show notes, yes.

Shannon:

Absolutely.

Siobhan:

Does your team have a newsletter as well?

Alessandra:

We do, we have an e-newsletter.

Siobhan:

I feel like I'm a subscriber.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Alessandra:

We have the literacy and numeracy e-newsletter that comes out once a term. We have the literacy and numeracy Statewide Staffrooms, which I highly recommend being a part of, and then of course we have the literacy and numeracy page on the department's webpage.

Shannon:

There's some curriculum advisers that monitor the Statewide Staffroom, aren't there? People who

Alessandra:

There are literacy advisers, yes.

Shannon:

Ask questions in there. Literacy advisers. If you have anything, you can add it in there and get.

Alessandra:

That's how you get direct contact to us, absolutely. So, you can email literacy.numeracy@det.nsw.edu.au or you can contact us more easily really through Microsoft Teams on the literacy Statewide Staffroom. And yeah, we answer within the day usually, so.

Shannon:

Excellent. Yeah.

Siobhan:

Help is there. It's waiting for you.

Alessandra:

Yes, absolutely.

Siobhan:

You're waiting for questions. Come one, come all, to the Statewide Staffroom. I love it.

Shannon:

Fantastic. I've got one last little question. Looking back, what sort of piece of advice would you give yourself as a first year English teacher?

Alessandra:

Oh, ah.

Shannon:

I know, I’ve ended on a big one.

Siobhan:

Breathe.

Alessandra:

Yeah. I can say the incremental change thing now, but I can say it because I lived the opposite. I tried to do everything at once. In fact, that has been, every leader I've ever had has always said, 'Okay, slow down. Steady on.' Because if you ask me what change I want to make or what I want to do, and you give me a list, and they say pick, I say all of them, so.

Shannon:

Ready to change the world.

Alessandra:

Yeah. So, I think definitely pace yourself. I think, so that, but also, I think it's hard because we go in, I know I definitely went in wanting to be the best teacher that I could be, knowing that I wouldn't get that lesson and that period back again. Right? So that was that student's one shot to have that period in that lesson, and then that hour or whatever was gone. And so I wanted to make the most of every hour. I still abide by that, but I think I've been a lot more gentle on myself because there are so many things that we try to pack into a lesson. So, I try to pick the most critical, and literacy is critical, and then I make it work, I learn from it, and then I go into the next period. So yeah, be gentle with yourself.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

Great piece of advice.

Shannon:

All right, thank you so much, Alessandra, for joining us on the couch today. I know I have learned a whole lot, had some, some things have affirmed in my mind of what I used to do in my practice and things that I can pick up and bring back into the classroom. And I'm sure our listeners have got a whole suite of information that they can now take into their classrooms all across NSW. So we really appreciate you coming in and joining us on the couch. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in. We will see you next time. That's all for today. And make sure, if you are interested in literacy as it is everyone's business, like, subscribe, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and you can listen to us on Spotify if you so wish. So, we'll see you next time. Bye.

Siobhan:

Bye.

Shannon:

Thank you for tuning into the Teach NSW Podcast, where we explore the dynamic world of education. Don't forget to follow, like, and subscribe to be notified when new episodes become available. You can find us on social media via our handle @TeachNSW. Until next time, keep learning, keep teaching, and keep making a difference. The Teach NSW Podcast is a podcast by the Teach NSW team from the NSW Department of Education.