Siobhan:

I'd like to acknowledge that this episode of the Teach NSW podcast was recorded on the homelands of the Darug people. I'd like to pay respect to Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples listening today.

Opening Credits:

Welcome to the Teach NSW podcast, a podcast by teachers for teachers. I'm Shannon, and I'm Siobhan.

Siobhan:

We'd like to welcome a special guest to the couch. Thanks for joining us, Mel.

Mel:

Hi guys, it's really nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

Siobhan:

Mel is a special and inclusive education teacher at a School for Specific Purposes on the lands of the Bidjigal people of the Eora Nation in Sydney's Southern Suburbs. We're so looking forward to speaking with Mel today about what drew her to the profession and why special and inclusive education is important to her and why others should consider this as a career pathway.

Shannon:

We love to start off the show by doing a little bit of a This or That. We've rebranded it as a teacher edition. So, the first one I have for you is, do you like to read the book or watch the movie?

Mel:

Read the book.

Shannon:

Oh, okay. Do you feel like for you, reading is more because you can like visualise what it's going to be like?

Mel:

Yeah, and I'm usually doing other things while I'm doing it, so then I can go back and read over it again and remember what was happening.

Shannon:

Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes for me, I feel like when I watch the movie or if I've read the book and then watched the movie, I'm like, that is not how I was going to. How I thought it was going to play out or who was going to play the characters, not who I envisioned. I'm a fan of watch the movie to be honest. Siobhan?

Siobhan:

It depends on the timing for me. So, like if I had heard of the book prior to, like, I would definitely choose the book. So, for example, "Daisy Jones & the Six" read that book first. Now that it's out in a series, I'm not really bothered to watch it and I haven't yet.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

But if it was something that I'd never heard of, like in book form and it was in a film, then I would probably watch the film first, I suppose, and could go back to the book and compare it, so.

Shannon:

All right, the next one I have is morning classes or afternoon classes.

Mel:

I'm definitely a morning person. You have lot more energy at that time of the day and then you get it done. The sooner you get it done, the sooner you're out of there. So, much prefer to get things done first and then you can relax after.

Shannon:

Yeah, nice. I'm a morning class person as well, I have the most energy in the morning. I was at my highest energy, I think.

Siobhan:

Mm, I'm going to switch this and go from a gym perspective.

Shannon:

Mm.

Siobhan:

Because I've answered this question about school a million times.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

But, for me, afternoon gym classes as well. So, that would make me a morning school person so I could get to the afternoon gym class I suppose.

Shannon:

Oh yeah, nice.

Siobhan:

If I was to go.

Shannon:

Depending on the day.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Shannon:

You know, we're just waking up and trying our best.

Siobhan:

Yeah, don't print out like my gym membership and the times I've been, because that would out me, so.

Shannon:

The last one we have this morning or today is dress-up days or bake sales?

Mel:

Oh, absolutely dress-up days. That's one of my favourite things to do. I have a dress-up box in my classroom.

Shannon:

Oh.

Mel:

I actually have 3 dress-up boxes in my classroom and yeah, there's a lot going on in there, so.

Siobhan:

What's been your best costume?

Mel:

Oh.

Siobhan:

Or one of?

Mel:

It's more of a generic brand of dressing up I like to do where you throw lots of different things in together. Probably our best day. We have a lot of dress-up days for school, but Superhero Day is probably one of our best days.

Shannon:

Oh, nice.

Mel:

Where anything goes for superheroes. You've got your general Marvel characters and all of those characters from the movies. But, I tend to make my own up as with capes and tiaras and wands and all sorts of things.

Shannon:

Well, I'd argue that a teacher is a form of superhero. So, you know?

Mel:

I'll take that.

Shannon:

Rock up as yourself, Mel. I would say dress-up days as well. I think, look, I really loved book week because we would do a book parade at my school and we'd all the, like the staff would all get into it as well. And we'd always do a big staff photo before the students would arrive. And it was just so much fun. Like the students guessing who you were. Remember one year I went as Pippi Longstocking, very fitting. May I say a real challenge to get the hair to go up like that.

Siobhan:

Did the kids know who Pippi Long?

Shannon:

No, that's what I was about to say. So, I was so hyped up, so excited, really felt like I looked exactly like Pippi Longstocking with the energy I put into my costume. And, not one of my students at the time knew who Pippi Longstocking was. So, that was a nice humbling moment for me.

Siobhan:

There you go.

Shannon:

I was feeling my age.

Siobhan:

Mm. For me, in the answer to that question, love to eat. So, bake sale, obviously. Any days at school that include food, like our cultural days where students bring a dish from their background is so exciting. We have students who run commerce market stalls a lot of the time as part of their assessments and they often build a business that includes food. So, I like supporting them. It's quite easy to support when there's beautiful food made for you at the school. Yeah, bake sales, fundraising, charity, yeah. Anything that I can eat or contribute to in that way. Sign me up.

Shannon:

What are you baking for the bake sale?

Siobhan:

What am I baking for the bake sale? I'm buying the $4 brownie mix from Aldi because it's absolutely incredible. And when you like give it to people, they're like, "These are amazing." It's like, "Yeah, handmade, made those myself."

Mel:

Can I jump in there?

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Mel:

Funny you should mention the $4 triple choc fudge triple brownie mix from Aldi. We run a cafe for our school, I teach Year 12 kids in our school and we run a cafe to raise money for our Year 12 graduation at the end of the year. And we bake cakes and I'm not a fan of cooking. In fact, I struggle to bake from a cake mix and I do have to bring in reinforcements in the form of my school learning support officers to assist because I just get so nervous. But, those triple choc fudge brownies are the best. And we make a lot of money for our graduation fundraising from them, from all the staff in the school so

Siobhan:

And actually just recently they changed the branding of the packaging and I thought that they were gone from the shelves completely, but I just realised it was just a little bit rebranded. Oh, thank goodness.

Shannon:

Siobhan is having a meltdown on aisle 4.

Siobhan:

Choc brownies, no way. Well, thank you for joining us for that segment Mel, that was great. Got to know a little bit more about you and your journey, but we kind of want to take it back to the start and get to know a little bit more about you in terms of why you decided to become a teacher.

Mel:

Okay, good question, I'm glad you asked. I think it's something that I've always wanted to do. When I was very young, I'd have all the kids in the street lined up in my bedroom and in front of a blackboard and I'd be teaching them how to spell whether or not they wanted to learn. I just really enjoyed sort of doing that aspect of it. And then I did some work experience in Year 10, as most people do at that age. And I worked in a Kindergarten, which I absolutely loved, but I fell in love with one little boy with Down syndrome who was just gorgeous and we instantly bonded. And, that's probably the point where I realised I had an affinity for people with disabilities and really wanted to follow that path. Yeah, so when it came time to deciding what I was going to do when I went to uni, I trained as a primary teacher because at that time, many years ago, that was the path you had to take. You couldn't go straight into special ed. So, I trained as a primary teacher at Macquarie Uni and did some special ed undergrad courses with a view to go and retrain in special ed down the track. And then quite quickly, I finished my degree and went out and taught in a primary school in Western Sydney. My first job was a maternity leave position of a lady who worked in a unit in a mainstream primary school with IM (Mild Intellectual Disability) students and I realised that's exactly what I wanted to do. And proceeded quite quickly to, an opportunity came up to enter a cadetship program the following year or 2 years later. And that's how I got into special ed that gave me my permanent appointment in an SSP. And the rest is history because I've been pretty much teaching in SSP's or Schools for Specific Purposes since then, so

Shannon:

Yeah. Wow, quite a journey. And I love how, you know, us who are already in the education space are very accustomed to an acronym, an SSP for those listening that's Schools for Specific Purposes. Can you please tell us a little bit more about, you know, what does context of an SSP look like?

Mel:

Well, many people do ask me that question because, but I find it very strange because our SSP or Special School is run very much like any other school, any other mainstream school. We have our day divided into 3 sessions, morning, middle, afternoon, separated by recess and lunch. Our students go out to the playground for, you know, and we have staff rostered on duty. So, very much run like any other school. The difference is our school is smaller, we have a smaller number of students. The classes have a lot smaller number of students in them to cater for the high level of support needs that our students require. So, yeah, we might, guess most mainstream classes would have around 30 students in there. From memory, because it's been so long. But, we have 5 or 6, maybe 7 students in our class because our students, particularly in our school, which is a school for students with very high support needs, it requires a very high level of care and support for our students to access the curriculum.

Shannon:

Yeah, so would there be additional support within the classroom in addition to you as the classroom teacher?

Mel:

Yeah, absolutely, we couldn't do it on our own. It's a really big job. So, there's generally a teacher like myself and then in our school we have one to 2 School Learning Support Officers or SLSO's.

Shannon:

Another acronym.

Mel:

And yeah, so they assist with supporting our students to access their educational programs, but also with the nature and a degree of our students' needs and abilities, they also support our students with personal care and wellbeing. A lot of our students are tube fed, have severe epilepsy, require medication and full support. One-to-one support for all personal care needs as well on top of accessing the curriculum and the educational programs. So, they work very, very hard and we're very, very grateful for all our amazing SLSOs, they do such a wonderful job.

Siobhan:

I think, I just want to kind of segue into that community that's really built within schools and the connection that the teacher has with the SLSO and the whole school coming together in that sense. Can you describe to us what the community is like at your school, knowing that you're all supporting and working towards that one common goal?

Mel:

Absolutely. And that's probably one of the biggest differences I've noticed. But, it's been the same in every school I've worked in both here and I worked in London as well. It doesn't matter what country you're in. I think with the nature of our students with the high support needs that they have, you become such a strong team and you're so supportive of each other and everyone that's working in our school is there to support the kids and to benefit the kids. And everyone goes above and beyond. We're very, very close and very tight knit community within the school. But also, we have very close relationships with the families of our students as well which is a big point of difference, I think, for our school too. And it's a real privilege.

Shannon:

Absolutely, you're all working together really as Siobhan mentioned, that one common goal.

Siobhan:

Yeah, shout out to the SAS staff because just like any day that an SLSO was at my door ready to come into my lessons to support some of my students with additional needs, I just love having them in my classroom and, you know, welcoming them into that space. I just think that they do so much for the profession and help teachers out so much. Yeah, I really appreciate them.

Mel:

And they know and understand our students so well. They spend a good amount of time with them and really know them, and.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Mel:

In that way they really help us out too.

Shannon:

Yeah, absolutely. Now, as teachers we know no 2 days are the same. Talk to us a little bit about, you know, a day in your life, what does your routine look like for you and your class and your students?

Mel:

You're quite right and I think it's exponentially amplified that no day is the same in our room because we have so many other things going on. But a typical day would be, the students would come in, most of them catch the school assisted transport buses into school. They will come into the playground, when the bell rings we go and collect our students and bring them into class. The majority of our students are wheelchair-bound and rely on wheelchair for mobility. So, we will go and collect them or our school learning support officers go and collect them. We bring them in, we do our good morning, our morning circle, which is where we identify who's at school. We greet everyone. That's a big part of our morning because our students, the big focus of our students' program is communication. The majority of our students in our school are non-verbal and that makes it really challenging for them to go about their day. So, the morning circle is a really good opportunity for us to focus on their communication skills, answering questions, finding out how they're feeling. As well as talking about the date and today's program, the timetable and everything that's going to be happening during the day.

Siobhan:

Do you find your training in not only special and inclusive education, but primary education has assisted you in supporting these students as well?

Mel:

Yeah, I really do. I found that the structure of the primary day, it is very similar to the way we structure our classes and our day-to-day going on in the classes and the running of lessons very much. Because even though I've got Year 12 kids and I've worked in the high school environment for the last, well, 7 years, basically our day is run very much like a primary room because our students aren't going off to different classes, they're staying within our group. There may be sessions where we split our secondary team up into different groups for maths or for PD/H/PE groups, but otherwise they're generally in the same classes. We do get together for sport, we have sport sessions, which is the whole secondary team. And that would be 5 classes this year, approximately 30 students.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Mel:

Where we all come together and we run sport together and things like that. So yeah, I'd say my primary training, I just automatically run my class the same way as I would as a primary class.

Siobhan:

Then you get that like K to 12 feel as well within the school, which is excellent.

Mel:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

So, a good area to put those skills to use. Like if current primary school teachers are listening and thinking of retraining and have that calling for special and inclusive education, I think, it can be a little bit of a seamless pathway in that respect because you do have the skills and knowledge to be able to adapt to the situation. You just, you know, obviously need to learn the fundamental underpinnings of supporting students with a variety of needs. So, I think, yeah, I would encourage people to take the leap and consider it.

Shannon:

And also, you know, I think something that I did while I was still studying, I worked as a Student Learning and Support Officer and I worked across mainstream schools that had support units and I also worked in SSP schools. So, I would definitely say, you know, if you are at that point in your bachelor degree, for example, and you're thinking, "Well, I'm in my second or third year, I'm thinking about doing special ed" approach your local public school, see if, you know, you can, work as an SLSO there and support students in that capacity and see, you know, trial is it for you. Because like Siobhan said, you know, taking the leap, sometimes people want to know, sort of have a little bit of experience under their belt and I think that's a really great way to gain that experience.

Mel:

Well as you say, that really is a great way to gain that experience. I mean, I had no idea about SSPs or this degree of special ed when I first started the cadetship, but through that program we're encouraged to go and observe lots of different settings, including units in mainstream settings, which I was already familiar with as well as behavioural settings. And I think they were called tutorial centres back in those days as well as shadowing itinerant teachers as well. But the first moment I stepped into an SSP my very first time and I just walked into a class, it was a double class, so there were like 10 kids, but there was 4 or 5 staff in there. Everyone was singing, everyone was dancing, everyone was laughing. The kids had the biggest look of joy on their face. And that was my moment of, I'd never thought about it before this kind of special ed, but this, I knew in that moment that's exactly where I wanted to be, to work with those students with very high support needs. And I think initially people would expect it to be really sad and, you know, and a more negative environment. But it's been the most positive environment that I've ever worked in and you just absolutely love it. So, I encourage you to come and even come to an SSP, have a look around, volunteer.

Siobahn:

Yeah.

Mel:

Join a class.

Siobhan:

Your placement as well is a really good time to ask.

Shannon:

Oh, very true.

Siobhan:

My first placement, it was class as an observation, practicum placement, I think I went into a school one day for 10 weeks or something and for a few of the weeks, I was observing in mainstream classrooms, but the school had a support unit and I said, that's where I would like to be. So, I basically shadowed as like a third or fourth SLSO in the room. And that moment was actually when my own interest and passion for special and inclusive education was brought to light because I got to see students in a different setting. I didn't really know how to describe it, but it just felt like I was making even more of an impact in that moment as well. I just, yeah, it was really special to me. So, I think if you don't put yourself in those positions, you'll never know.

Shannon:

That's right.

Siobhan:

And it could be the best choice you ever make walking into that classroom.

Shannon:

So, thinking about, you know, all teachers like as a generalisation. It's not just, you know, in SSPs, but why do you think it's important for, you know, all teachers, not just those working in SSPs or support units to have, you know, a really deep understanding of special and inclusive teaching practices?

Mel:

Well, there are so many students around with such a range of needs in every school. And I even noticed it when I was teaching in mainstream. You know, you've got within one class, you've got so many different needs. You've got behavioural needs, you've got language needs, you've got learning difficulties. It's so, so important to know, to have an understanding of how to approach and how to teach students with all those differing needs. I mean, we have got an incredible range of needs within our school, but we're at the very pointy end of special ed and we have a lot of support. But mainstream teachers, they probably don't get as much support as what we do. And to have a fundamental knowledge of working with students with a wide range of needs, it would be invaluable. And, you know, it was always something that I wish was more of the more part of the undergraduate program. And because it was the only reason I did special ed subjects back in those days was because I chose to do them. But it wasn't mandatory, so.

Shannon:

Yeah, like, I reflect on my own time as well, like working as an SLSO, visuals were such a huge part of the classrooms that I was in with students with additional needs, for example. However, then the school that I ended up teaching at had a really high population of students who were EAL/D students and the need for visuals, like, you know, some of my students, they didn't know what the beach was, they'd never been to the beach. How are they going to know what the word beach means? Well, you know, we need to sort of provide that additional visual for them to understand. And that was something that I really carried through with my pedagogy and my practice. Because not only for your, you know, students with English as an additional language or dialect, but all students, you know, they're growing up in a world, there's lots of things they're seeing for the first time. So, what better way to sort of help them make that connection than using your visuals for example.

Mel:

And we certainly adapt a multi-sensory approach because we do have students with different sensory needs. And so, we use a lot of technology to incorporate it into our lessons. Obviously, the use of the interactive whiteboard has been game changing for our students. But also, we use a lot of switches, a lot of sounds, associated sounds, a lot of tactiles, sensory materials that they can touch and feel. So, for example, the beach, we've done many stories about the beach. You know, we'd have sand, buckets of sand and diggers and, you know, bottles of water and water sprayers so they can actually get a multisensory understanding of the beach. And then we'll get in the bus and we'll drive down to the beach.

Siobhan:

Yes, please.

Mel:

It's all about catering to a wide range of learning styles because all our kids even, I've got 6 in my class and they're all very, very different. So, within one lesson we would have so many different things going on teaching the same topic, catering to all those needs, so.

Siobhan:

And can you tell us a little bit more about, you know, the range of technology that's offered at your school and in your classroom? Because I'm sure that the technology plays a really big part in ensuring students have equitable access to outcomes. You mentioned a lot of your students were non-verbal as well, so I assume technology plays a big part in that.

Mel:

Absolutely. And probably the biggest part of our teaching throughout the day is focused on communication and giving our students a voice. And technology plays a massive role in that. We do have a lot of low-tech options, but we're getting more and more high-tech options through too. So, talking about the visuals that you're talking about, we have visuals plastered all over the wall, which are basically picture communication symbols that our students use for communication. We have a lot of switches that can have messages recorded on them that the students can press to have a voice and to say things. And then we have the more high tech options of using iPads for students that have got the mobility to do that. But, probably the most game-changing technology that's come through in the past few years that we use a lot in our classroom has been the Eyegaze technology. And that's basically a screen that goes in front of the students and we put out picture symbols on it and the students look at the buttons on the Eyegaze technology on the screen and the button, when they look at the words it says the words for them. So, we are having conversations with students now who historically have been very, very passive and you would think, "Oh, I'm not sure how I'm going to get them to communicate." We are having conversations with them, they're telling us things that they like, things that they want to stop. Yes. Answering yes/no questions. But, probably the most important part of that has been our students are able to tell when something's not right or they're uncomfortable.

Shannon:

I can imagine that would be so profound for the students as well.

Mel:

It's a huge deal, yeah, it's really, really important that they can tell us that and advocate for themselves. And the Eyegaze technology has been absolutely incredible in helping them to do that, so.

Siobhan:

And for the staff, I'm sure it would help you build an even better connection with the students.

Mel:

Oh, we had so much fun.

Siobhan:

No doubt the personalities coming out more.

Mel:

Now we have to write goals around Eyegaze etiquette because I've got students shouting out to me, you know, there's one student that really likes to request a massage or a stretch. And so, you know, and we work really hard and we want them to be able to request that.

Shannon:

Of course.

Mel:

So, we acknowledge every request quick, another massage, another massage all through lesson. But then, she became so good at it that now the goal is to wait to make a request using her Eyegaze and then wait because we need to bring in some behaviours and etiquette around using Eyegaze. Yeah, exactly. And that is, you know, to me that's the best problem to have, the best issue.

Shannon:

Absolutely.

Mel:

But we have so much fun, we've got students.

Siobhan:

And that's kids being kids right, at the end of the day.

Mel:

Yeah And having them interact with each other has been absolutely brilliant.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Mel:

So, yeah.

Shannon:

Wow. What advice would you give to, we touched on it a little bit about, around advice of how to get into special inclusive education, but what advice would you give to someone thinking or contemplating taking the leap?

Mel:

I'd say absolutely go for it. It's such a rewarding part of education and such a wonderful job. And the people you work with are absolutely amazing and it's just such a great community to be part of.

Siobhan:

I'm interested actually to hear about like, the journey of like seeing off your students, like when they're in Year 12 and seeing them into

Shannon:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

Their lives.

Mel:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Preparing them for the next step, what does that look like?

Mel:

We're edging closer to the end of that journey now, so.

Shannon:

Oh yeah.

Mel:

So, I've got all the Year 12 students, I've got 6 Year 12 students in my class now. And I started at the school I'm in 7 years ago. So, these guys have literally been with me on or off, on and off, but been with me since the start. And, I get a bit emotional when I start thinking about it because it's such a big deal and they've come so far. And, you know, our aim is to send them off into their next adventure with, you know, life-long skills of communication and self-advocacy and as much independence as possible. And so, that they can be confident and contributing members of their community and have a say in what the next part of their life looks like. And we've worked really hard on that over the last few years and it is coming to the culmination now where we're talking about planning our Year 12 graduation. And we're getting the students as involved in that as possible by, you know, down to choosing the colour scheme for the decorations. But that will be the biggest night I think of their whole schooling life because it's the big celebration. You know, we have a massive night, it's like a wedding that we're organising here.

Shannon:

Usually symbolic, yeah.

Mel:

It's going to be amazing. But, it's going to be so wonderful because I can see how far they've come to send them off and to know that they're ready to go. But I think it's going to be very, very emotional. Yeah. Even speaking with some of their families now throughout parent/teacher meetings and PLP meetings, when we start talking about it, we all kind of get emotional talking about it.

Shannon:

Oh goodness.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Mel:

Have to put it away for a little while but yeah, it's going to be amazing.

Shannon:

Thinking about preparing them for the next step, what does that sort of differentiation look like with the curriculum that you would put into place for your Year 12 students in getting them ready, you know, building those life skills and capabilities? What does that look like?

Mel:

Well, alongside the big focus on communication because that's the biggest life skill that they need to have. We also do a lot of, we focus a lot on community participation, supporting our students out in the community, getting them out into the shopping centres and, you know, developing their interests and helping them to regulate themselves in different situations. Because school is a very, very safe place and it's a very comfortable place and it's somewhere that they're used to, but when they leave school, they'll be going into different environments. Most of our students will go to community participation programs, day programs or have carers come in and take them out. But it's our job to help them develop their skills of managing themselves and developing their interests and helping them to become more resilient in different and new settings and new situations. So, there's a bigger focus on that, particularly with the Year 12's. Yeah.

Shannon:

And just thinking about people who might be listening that, you know, might be thinking, well, you know, we've talked about pre-service teachers, et cetera, but what about those teachers who are current primary or current secondary school teachers thinking about retraining. What advice would you sort of give to them?

Mel:

Do it. Experienced teachers come to us all the time looking for a change and a lot of them end up staying because it's just such a rewarding job for them to do. It's just put yourself out there, have a go, do something different. You might find you really enjoy it.

Siobhan:

So, being a special and inclusive education teacher and retraining in that sort of space gives you access to over 4,500 support settings across the NSW public school system. So, you know, you can be like Mel and work in an SSP or you can work within mainstream schools that have support units attached to them as well. So, I think that by retraining and studying special and inclusive education, you're not limiting your career, you're expanding it and the skillset is so valuable across your entire career, I think it's really important.

Shannon:

Teachers who are experienced, already out there in the profession looking to, you know, retrain maybe in the area of inclusive or special education. We have a program with the department known as IPIE, Inclusive Practice in Education. And if you are interested and listening at home, you can access this information under the Enhance your Career section of the Department of Education website. It's a good place to start. Have a look, get supported while you retrain.

Siobhan:

Exactly.

Shannon:

Let's talk about the skills, you know, that you'd need to sort of have in a special or inclusive education setting as a teacher. What do those skills look like?

Mel:

Well, you need to be very energetic, you need to be active, but you also need to be really flexible as well, because I don't think I've ever taught a lesson to plan. So many things are going on during a lesson that you just need to roll with it and a lot of making it up and as you go along and trial and erroring. But that's okay. We come out the other side of a lesson with so many other outcomes achieved on top of what we were planning to. So, it's just about being flexible and being able to go with the flow and, you know, taking opportunities for learning when they arise. When you're least expecting it, our students will engage and be really keen and enthusiastic and you just got to go with it.

Shannon:

Yeah. And being guided by your learners as well, I imagine is such a key part of that success as well.

Mel:

Absolutely. We go off on many, many tangents which is great in our setting because we have that flexibility in our timeframes and programming of what we're teaching. So, we often go off on a tangent when one of our students has done something unexpected and we've rolled with it and we've gone for it. And then you find other students engaged with that aspect of the lesson. And yeah, that's really rewarding. Often times, and it's only just recently that I was looking at my SLSO's and I'm like, "This wasn't even what I was planning to teach, but this is brilliant. Let's get going, this is amazing."

Shannon:

I'm hearing you catering to their needs exactly, Mel.

Mel:

Yeah, needs we didn't even know they had.

Siobhan:

So, at the end of the day, how would you like your students to remember you?

Mel:

That's a really good question, I've never been asked that question before, but it's a good question to think about now as I'm sending all my students off to, you know, their newest adventure and when they leave school. So, I guess I'd like them to remember me as someone who went above and beyond, who really pushed them and challenged them and gave them the skills that they'll need, and. Gave them skills they need, you know, to, you know, I hope that when they're out in their community participation programs, that they're confident and they're happy and they look back on school and their time in my class, particularly as a really positive and enjoyable experience.

Shannon:

Amazing. So, speaking of the legacy, you know, what we want our students to remember us as teachers. And I sort of liked how you said you hadn't really thought about it because I feel like even for me, I think back to my students who were in Year 6 going off into high school. I never wanted to take that moment and stop and reflect on like they're about to leave and how are they going to remember me. And I think it's because saying goodbye to your little people is the hardest part of being a teacher. It's like you spend so much time with them and like you mentioned, you were with those students almost their whole entire schooling from when they came in in Year 7. And having to say those goodbyes, it's a real rollercoaster for a teacher. And one of the things that I'm like, "That's the hardest part, saying goodbye." So, I really resonate with that. That's all we have time for today. Unfortunately. Well, I've really enjoyed this episode. It's been lovely talking with you, Mel. So, thank you so much for joining us on the couch to talk about all things special and inclusive education. It's been a very valuable conversation.

Mel:

Yeah, thank you, I've really enjoyed myself. So, thanks for your time. Good experience.

Shannon:

Wonderful. And hopefully you have enjoyed listening to this episode as well. If you have, feel free to share it with someone who you think would equally as much enjoy it. But until next time, we'll say goodbye and we'll see you soon. Bye.

Thank you for tuning into the Teach NSW Podcast where we explore the dynamic world of education. Don't forget to follow, like, and subscribe to be notified when new episodes become available. You can find us on social media via our handle @TeachNSW. Until next time, keep learning, keep teaching, and keep making a difference. This podcast is produced by the Teach NSW team from the NSW Department of Education.