Siobhan:

I'd like to acknowledge that this episode of the Teach NSW Podcast was recorded on the Homelands of the Darug people. I'd like to pay respect to Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander peoples listening to the Teach NSW Podcast today.

Opening Credits:

Welcome to the Teach NSW Podcast, a podcast by teachers for teachers. I'm Shannon, and I'm Siobhan.

Shannon:

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Teach NSW Podcast. I'm your host, Shannon, and I'm joined by Siobhan. And also on our couch today, we are joined by Sarah.

Sarah:

Hello.

Shannon:

Who we're really excited to have here with us today.

Siobhan:

Yay, thank you so much for coming in, Sarah.

Sarah:

Thanks for having me.

Siobhan:

For those tuning in at home, Sarah you may know as @Teacherishappy on Instagram and other socials, but Sarah's an assistant principal working in a New South Wales public school. We're so pleased to have you on today. Going to talk all things leadership journey, entry into the teaching career, and navigating that on the side with your content creation as well. So, welcome.

Sarah:

I feel very honoured to be here. I'm very excited.

Siobhan:

Really good. Well, we just wanted to ask you a few questions just to get to know a bit more about you. You may have seen it's a common trend, but the 'This or That' teacher edition.

Sarah:

I've seen the 'This or That'.

Shannon:

We're all about it at the moment.

Siobhan:

Yeah. Let us know what you think and we'll tell you our ‘This or Thats’ as well. So, first of all, coffee or tea?

Sarah:

Definitely tea.

Siobhan:

Tea.

Sarah:

White and one, tea.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Full-cream milk.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

As sugary as I can get it.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

See, I'm a coffee in the morning, tea in the evening

Sarah:

Nice.

Siobhan:

Kinda person.

Shannon:

Yeah, I'm a bit of both.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Shannon:

I'm a real peppermint tea girl.

Siobhan:

Ooh.

Shannon:

Before I go to bed. Love to have peppermint tea. But I don't think I could function without coffee, which is probably a really bad thing, but it's keeping me going, so.

Siobhan:

We love it. Okay. Do you work best before the bell or after the bell?

Sarah:

Oh, I feel like I want to, well, I always get to school early, and then, but yeah, look, neither. I don't know. I don't know, I think in my role, there's lots of interruptions and things. And I obviously want to check in with lots of people, so yeah, it really depends on the day.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

I always try to get in early, and then are thrown with like a million new

Siobhan:

Of course.

Sarah:

other challenges or something, yeah. Yeah, very much depends on the day.

Siobhan:

I think I was more of a I'd like to be work best before the bell but sometimes, I'm also work best after the bell as well, so a bit of both as well.

Shannon:

I was never a work best after the bell.

Sarah:

Okay.

Shannon:

If you found me, I just love to have a chat after the bell. I felt like my most productive was in the morning. I'm definitely more of a morning worker.

Siobhan:

Mm-hmm.

Shannon:

So I loved when I had a demountable, because I would close my little door. No one would know I was in there, really, because I was tucked away behind the corner with my desk.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Shannon:

And I loved getting to school at like 7:30, do my preparation for the day, and I felt like I could start with that nice calm. And then the poor people who love to work after the bell, because not on my watch. I was just around, seeing how everyone's going. 'How are we? How was our day?'

Sarah:

Yeah, I'm one of those, have you seen that meme? And it's got the

Siobhan:

Oh, 'Don't bother me?’ Like the sign?

Sarah:

Do you know what I mean? Because I will literally talk to you for three hours and get nothing done. That is me, unfortunately, so.

Shannon:

I feel like that's how we found ourselves on this couch. Let's be real. Professional chatters.

Sarah:

I'll go in and sit on someone's desk and annoy them, and ask them all about their day. And they're probably like, 'Please leave.'

Siobhan:

I'm kind of like.

Sarah:

'Just want to know, what's going on? What's new with you?'

Shannon:

I think it's part of being a teacher, though.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Shannon:

My friend's a hairdresser and she always says, 'I always know when a client is a teacher because they can just talk and talk and talk.'

Sarah:

We can fill every little

Shannon:

Absolutely, we can talk to a wall.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

Okay, quiet lunch on your own or chatty lunch in the staffroom?

Sarah:

Oh, I love a chatty lunch.

Siobhan:

Yeah, yeah.

Sarah:

Sometimes you need it, though, just to decompress, have that little quiet lunch.

Siobhan:

I agree.

Sarah:

But for most part, I made it kind of a rule to get to the staffroom at least once a day.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And I just love being around people. So that's probably the extrovert in me. But sometimes you do need

Siobhan:

Yeah, quiet time.

Sarah:

Just a little quiet time. Decompress.

Siobhan:

Depends on the day.

Sarah:

Yeah, yeah, totally.

Siobhan:

What are you, Shannon?

Shannon:

To be honest, there are some days, I think, that you need to have a quiet lunch, and I would love to turn the lights off in my classroom. And I was in one of those classrooms that had those sensor lights.

Sarah:

Ah.

Shannon:

And when it would go off, I'm like, 'Ah. Peace.' I can just eat my lunch in peace, especially in summer when it's so hot. I felt like a nice, dark room. Decompress. And, but yeah, I also love to go to the staffroom. Something I did, especially when I moved into a leadership role, I would, this is quite, you'll laugh at this. I used to send my friends calendar invites for lunch.

Sarah:

Ah, cute.

Shannon:

And I'm like, 'We have to have Lunch Club because it's in the calendar.'

Sarah:

Yeah.

Shannon:

We would meet

Siobhan:

It's a commitment.

Shannon:

It's a commitment. We'd have to meet in the outdoor lounge. And we had this beautiful staff area, and we'd have lunch on a Friday. And if anyone missed

Sarah:

I'm going to steal that. I love it.

Shannon:

You can't miss it. It's in the calendar, we have to do it.

Siobhan:

It's a commitment.

Sarah:

Fancy.

Shannon:

So it was actually a nice, little tradition that we started, so.

Sarah:

I'm going to steal that. I love hearing from what other people

Siobhan:

Are doing, yeah.

Sarah:

You never think to do something like that, but it's so simple. But it kind of keeps you accountable, too, which is nice.

Shannon:

It's important.

Siobhan:

It's also a bit funny, too.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

'Sorry, guys, I have a prior commitment. I've got lunch with my colleague, so.' (laughing)

Shannon:

And you know what? Shout out to Mr. Madden and Miss Morley. I hope you're still having Lunch Club without me.

Siobhan:

I love that. Next one is dress-up days or excursions?

Sarah:

Mm. I'm so on the fence with every question. I'm not a very good 'This or That' girl. I'm the 'or'. Dress-up days.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Because I love that you can be creative. Although, the kids are wild. I don't know, tricky one.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Again, I do love an excursion and seeing kids in a new light, especially with camps and things. And they can see you in a new light as well.

Siobhan:

Yes.

Sarah:

Being like, 'Oh, my gosh, she doesn't live at school?'

Siobhan:

Yeah. 'What?'

Sarah:

'She doesn't pull out her bed and that's her life?'

Shannon:

In the storeroom.

Sarah:

Yeah. Yeah, the storeroom. Little coffee and tea setup. No, so I think it's kind of nice to do excursions and things, but I love a dress-up day. But I'm that teacher that like loves, like I'll go full-out.

Shannon:

Crazy hair day.

Sarah:

I'm a crazy girl. Yeah, I'll do the crazy hair.

Siobhan:

What's the craziest outfit you've done at school?

Sarah:

Mm. Crazy?

Siobhan:

Or the best, I suppose.

Shannon:

Maybe like a book parade.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Give us your best book parade costume.

Sarah:

Love 'em all. My first school actually didn't do it for a long time, so I kind of missed out on having a few. But I did do a Miss Frizzle.

Shannon and Siobhan:

Ah.

Sarah:

I feel that's like you have to.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

I don't know what to call it, like a stock standard.

Shannon and Siobhan:

That's a teacher rite of passage.

Sarah:

It's like a rite of passage.

Siobhan:

For sure.

Sarah:

Which I loved and had the big iguana thing that I got from eBay on my shoulder. I don't know, so fun. I once went as, we had like a M day.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And I went as Maria from 'The Sound of Music', and absolutely not one child knew

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

The reference, and I was like, 'Cool.’ That was a bit of a waste. No one understood. But I went all out.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And I did you know the meme where she's in the hills.

Shannon:

Oh, yes.

Sarah:

And I would do like, you know I put up a meme. I think it was like, 'When you dress up as Maria, not one child knows who you are.' You know how it's like

Siobhan:

That's so funny.

Sarah:

It's so funny. And then people were like and it became a thing on Instagram. People would make memes with my picture in it.

Siobhan:

Oh, did they?

Sarah:

It was very funny.

Shannon:

Wow. That's hilarious.

Sarah:

So I felt that was my little viral moment. I loved it.

Shannon:

Well, the same thing happened to me. I went as Pippi Longstocking.

Sarah:

Okay.

Shannon:

And I was so excited. I was like 'I'm Pippi.' I really thought I looked the part.

Siobhan:

That's a classic.

Shannon:

Putting the wire.

Siobhan:

Putting the wire through the hair and flicking your ponytail up.

Shannon:

My really good friend at school, I went to her classroom. She was a kindy teacher at the time. I sat on the little kindy furniture, and we had the wire, and she did my hair in the morning.

Sarah:

Yeah, how fun.

Shannon:

The amount of hairspray that we had to use and everything.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Not one child knew who I was.

Sarah:

I know. Well, it's from our childhood or even before that.

Siobhan:

I know.

Shannon:

Makes you feel old, doesn't it?

Sarah:

I know. I'm like, ‘I'm a young, hip teacher.’

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

‘I know like the, you know the terms and the

Siobhan:

I'm down with the lingo, guys.

Sarah:

I'm down with the lingo. But I'm not. I'm not anymore, which is really depressing sometimes.

Siobhan:

They keep you humble I suppose.

Sarah:

They keep me very humble.

Shannon:

They do.

Sarah:

So when I'm feeling like I'm just like, I'm pretty much a pre-service teacher. I'm so young.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And so new to this. And then they humble us with like, 'I was born, you know

Siobhan:

'2000 and...'

Sarah:

And yeah. 'Sorry, what?'

Shannon:

'Sorry, when?'

Siobhan:

Last one. Do you prefer using a digital planner or a paper planner? Writing your things down or noting them up?

Sarah:

I definitely have committed to the paper planner.

Siobhan:

Mm.

Sarah:

I've dabbled in the digital. I think I'm just, I'm not really consistent with either, to be perfectly honest. But I do, like I'll scribble on a paper more.

Siobhan:

Yeah. I'm paper as well. I loved using my diary. One that I had was like, it was sorted into a five-period day, so I'll just write notes and follow-ups. And yeah, I just preferred it to digital because I could just see it there in front of me, add to it as I pleased. You can do that digitally, obviously. But it just was the way

Shannon:

It worked for you.

Siobhan:

It was the way that suited me, yeah.

Shannon:

Which is funny, because I'm a digital all the way girl.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Shannon:

There's never a scrap of paper in my bag.

Sarah:

I'm one that wishes they could be, but I don't know. And some of them are so beautiful, like I've seen.

Siobhan:

OneNote. You're a OneNote girl.

Shannon:

I'm a OneNote fanatic.

Siobhan:

OneNote, yeah, doesn't work for my brain.

Shannon:

Absolute fan club. Shout-out to Microsoft OneNote.

Sarah:

Oh, really?

Shannon:

Because I would be number one on that fan club.

Sarah:

You'll have to teach me because I have no clue.

Shannon:

My life was on OneNote, honestly. And I would go into meetings, for example, and I'd just go with my phone, and I'd be tap tap tapping away on my little OneNote.

Sarah:

Gotta love it.

Siobhan:

I love it. Well, that's 'This and That'.

Sarah:

That was good.

Shannon:

Thanks for joining us.

Siobhan:

Good to know a bit more about you. Just testing that one out. But I suppose let's dive more into the nitty-gritty. Really, we want to know, why teaching? Why did you choose teaching?

Sarah:

Gosh, okay.

Siobhan:

Where did it all begin? Everybody has a story, I feel, and you may think, oh, it's just stock standard. But we'd love to hear what your experience was.

Sarah:

I feel like it's definitely a mix of factors. When I was at high school, I was doing singing and dancing, and I went to a music school after school, school after school.

Siobhan:

Yup.

Sarah:

And I ended up doing some teaching through that with the littlies. I would teach them their little routine and we'd do boppin' along to whatever tragic Disney song. And I was like, 'I love this.' And I'm like, 'I think I'm good at it, too. I think this is what I'm meant to do.'

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And I really didn't know in high school. You're like, 'Oh, I have to decide on my career, and that can be my only career forever.' Like I don't know what.

Shannon:

And we're 17.

Sarah:

We need to get out of that mentality.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

But I was like, 'Oh, I think I'm doing teaching. I'm really loving it.' And I had a really beautiful, I've always had a really positive experience with schooling all through public education. I had, yeah, beautiful teachers. And particularly one in Year 12. That was my music teacher.

Siobhan:

You can shout them out.

Sarah:

Yeah, (chuckles) she's still teaching now, Mrs. Rankin. Ah. She was such an angel. And I think everyone would think that she was so beautiful and patient. And she, I remember, I don't know if it was an email or something, she'd sent something, and I hadn't seen it until the morning. And she was so concerned with my HSC pieces that she'd stayed up and researched, like, 'I think you should do this one. I think it hits this more. And I think you can cover more concepts', or something. I don't know what it was. But she was so concerned with my education in a lovely way. Not in like, 'Oh, my gosh, I'm worried you're failing.' She just wanted me to be my absolute best self. And that was so special. And I just felt so supported through her and wanted to be that for someone else. And I was kind of just like, ‘I want to, yeah, I want to be that for another child, another student.’ I think we need that and they need that. And you can be that for someone. And it's just so special. And I think about the fact that I still, not that I've been out of school so long, but I still think about the impact that she made on my education, and how special that is to this day, and I'm sure for a long time, so. And I know she made an impact on lots of people's lives. So how cool is that, that one person can just make an impact on so many lives?

Shannon:

Yeah. It's something

Sarah:

Yeah so I hope that I can do that.

Shannon:

We've spoken about this a few times on the podcast, if not chats with just Siobhan and I, like how cool it is, as a teacher, how much of an impact you have on so many little humans of tomorrow.

Sarah:

Yes, the little humans. I love that.

Shannon:

They're our future.

Siobhan:

And I have big humans, too, taller than me.

Shannon:

Yes, you do. You do, little and big humans.

Sarah:

Some of them are like, even our year sixes, I'm like, 'Was I just? Have I just stayed the same height?' Or, 'Why are you taller than me?'

Shannon:

They come back over summer, and you're like, 'Whoa.’

Sarah:

'What happened?' I'm like, 'Are kids bred taller now?'

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

I don't know. It's wild, yes. I know, little humans and big little humans. Yeah, totally.

Siobhan:

Ooh, I love that.

Shannon:

Well, tell us as well. We've done an episode on primary versus high school teaching.

Sarah:

Okay.

Shannon:

Being the dynamic duo that we are over here. But why did you choose primary school teaching? What kind of drew you to that?

Sarah:

Well, look, I don't want to offend any high school teachers either, so I'm going to tread very lightly. I just don't think I could do what you guys do.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

And I'm the same. I can't do what you guys do.

Sarah:

And I think you guys feel that same way, but I think the primary education, I think because I was teaching littlies with the singing and the dancing, that's kind of where I led more towards. And I feel like I'm quite creative and love being able to teach all the subjects.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And not just like one specialty.

Siobhan:

Mm-hmm.

Sarah:

And having my own classroom and space that I can set up and be that consistent person

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

For kids I think is so lovely. Just to make a space your own and really inviting for kids. And yeah, I love doing all the extracurricular stuff, like the dance groups, and the choir. I know you can do that with high school and stuff, too, but

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Yeah, I don't know, just the littlies called me.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And maybe in my career I will do high school at some point as well. But I think for now, I'm very happy where I am and I see what high school teachers do as well, and hats off to them and primary teachers. Man, we've both got, in such a different way, one of the best and trickiest jobs in the world, most complex, so.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Yeah, look, I don't know what the future holds. Maybe I'll do high school at some point. I would love to.

Siobhan:

You actually can.

Sarah:

Yeah, and that's the cool thing is that there's the opportunity for me to do that through the degree that I did. I can do both.

Shannon:

Oh, fantastic. Yeah. So with the Department of Education as well, you can actually teach in a high school setting which is really, really wonderful.

Siobhan:

I'd be interested to know, because you mentioned university, what was your university experience like? And maybe for those listening right now who are perhaps in the middle of their university teaching degree, what advice would you give to them?

Sarah:

Keep going.

Siobhan:

What would you say, because yeah

Sarah:

Keep going.

Siobhan:

It's very different.

Sarah:

I think uni was like, it was tricky.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Nothing against my uni at all. I did really like my experience, but I found uni challenging, and it's like a new experience where you're totally, not on your own, but it's hard to reach out

Shannon and Siobhan:

Well, you are.

Sarah:

For support. It's not like

Siobhan:

It's different.

Sarah:

Primary school and high school where someone's like holding your hand through a good chunk of it.

Siobhan:

Well, in contact with your parents even.

Sarah:

I know. Like, 'I don't know what I'm doing.' So there was definitely points in my degree where I was like, 'Why am I doing this?' Yeah. 'This is tricky.' And then just stick with it until you do a prac.

Siobhan:

Yes.

Sarah:

That's my biggest thing. Stick with it until you do a prac or volunteer in a school.

Siobhan:

SLSO work.

Sarah:

Yeah, you do SLSO work because until you're in there, you just don't know. I don't know how to explain it, but

Siobhan:

If it's for you.

Sarah:

Yes.

Siobhan:

If you're going to be good at it. It's like any career, I suppose. If you're getting into law or medicine, how do you know that you're going to be good at it.

Shannon:

You might have a preconceived idea.

Siobhan:

Until you do it.

Shannon:

And we've all been to school, but there's a huge difference between being a student in a classroom versus being a teacher. And I think your advice is really, really important

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Because I think of my own journey. I worked at a before and after school care centre. So like an OOSH, out of hours, where I got to sort of take small groups of students and sort of support them, and I loved it.

Sarah:

So cool.

Shannon:

And then I went into SLSO work where I worked with students in a support unit.

Siobhan:

Mm.

Shannon:

And that experience, I got to see other teachers in classrooms and see their sort of classroom management style, and see how they differentiated for their students, and how they catered for their needs.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Shannon:

All while I was at university studying teaching. And it helped me connect those dots. So I think that, you know, if you're in a position to do that and find a role where you can be in schools, but like you said, you could go down to your local public school and ask to volunteer.

Sarah:

Totally.

Shannon:

Speak with the school, say, 'I'm studying teaching. I really want to help.'

Sarah:

Yeah. And they will always welcome help.

Shannon:

What teacher would say no?

Sarah:

For the most part, you're not saying no just because it's always good to have more hands to help.

Shannon:

Of course.

Sarah:

But yeah, that's always been my biggest advice. And I think that kind of almost gives you, I don't know, it reinvigorates you to then

Siobhan:

I agree.

Sarah:

Keep going with the studying. And especially if studying's not your thing.

Shannon and Siobhan:

Yeah, yeah.

Sarah:

Wasn't my thing.

Siobhan:

I personally had a second-year lull. I think that once I reached my second year, I was a bit like (groans).

Sarah:

Yeah. It can be tricky.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

What I found hard as well is because I didn't really have anyone to, that was in the teaching profession that I knew that was currently a teacher in my personal life. My parents weren't teachers. My family and friends, I didn't really have anyone to reach out to, to give me that boost of the keep going.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Because yeah, just no one in my life was doing teaching. So yeah, that's what I found really hard. But keep going. You can do it.

Shannon:

And I think a lot of people will resonate with that.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Shannon:

It's an experience a lot of us go through, so, there’s a lot of merit in that. I'd love to hear a little bit more about you've mentioned your creative side. How has working in a New South Wales public school kind of allowed you as a teacher to tap into your creativity?

Siobhan:

Show off your creative flair?

Sarah:

Yeah. Okay. I'll sing a song for you. No, no.

Siobhan:

Five, six, seven, eight.

Sarah:

No, so I feel like, especially my first few years, I really, I dived early, and I was like, 'Oh, I'm going to do the dance group and the choir and all the things.' Don't do all the things. Do some of the things, but don't do all the things.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

So it was really cool to be able to utilise those skills and be that teacher for the kids to be the one that was so all-in around all those kind of extracurriculars. And I've had some really cool experiences where I've been able to conduct in front of a huge choir, mass choir, with lots of different schools. So that was a really cool experience for me in my first few years. And do Battle of the Dance and all those things.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Yeah, I just feel, and just your day-to-day, like just your ability to be flexible and creative in your lessons, and taking the content and making it as engaging as possible through creative outlets, and being able to, yeah, mix things together. And I'm pretty hands-on. I love creating, whether that's craft, or videos, or all sorts of multimedia. And my kids love it, so I love it. Yeah. I think, yeah, it's just you're given something that you need to instil wisdom on, and teach, and teach the content, but you can do it in such a flexible way.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

That's what's really cool about the job. It's kind of take it whatever path.

Shannon:

And we've touched on that before, actually, on the podcast, but I think extracurricular groups

Sarah:

Yeah.

Shannon:

For people who get into teaching and have other passions, it's such a nice way to make your passion shine.

Sarah:

Yes, and giving kids the opportunity. Some kids might not have the opportunity to do dance outside of school.

Siobhan:

Oh. That's right.

Shannon:

Very, very true.

Sarah:

So if we can give that opportunity, it's so special.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And they'll remember it forever.

Siobhan:

Well, I'd like to know now how you found yourself in the role of assistant principal?

Sarah:

Mm.

Siobhan:

So what did that, yeah, look like for you

Sarah:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

In your journey from first-year-out teacher to now AP?

Sarah:

Yeah, wow. So at my previous setting, at my previous school. Look, I was really lucky, to be honest. I got a targeted graduate position straight out of uni.

Siobhan:

Mm-hmm.

Sarah:

Got the call and they said, 'We've got a job for you in Sydney.' I don't live in Sydney, so I actually didn't know where the place was, to be perfectly honest. And I was like, 'Just give me a moment. I just need to quickly Google where it is.' And accepted that job. And it ended up being the best decision of my life.

Siobhan:

Mm-hmm.

Sarah:

My principal was so fabulous. He's retired now, but he was just like a legend. And they had a really strong leadership team. And he was really about fostering good leaders to have a good school.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

So, in my first kind of years, he'd seen me probably do a little bit too much, to be honest. I was like, I don't know, maybe trying to prove myself a little bit.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

So I was doing all the extracurriculars. And I'd kind of taken on a leadership role without being given one necessarily. And then he was like, 'Oh, I think you might be a really good fit for our leadership team. I know it's still really early in your career, but I can see potential in you.' And I felt like, I was like, 'Yes.’ I'd take on any opportunity like that. I always loved being a leader through school and through uni. And yeah, I just was surrounded by really good leaders, and learned a lot from them, and had a lot of fabulous mentors and a lot of handholding through it, and them showing me what to do, and me asking a lot of questions.

Shannon:

Mm.

Sarah:

And then was lucky enough to have the opportunity to be a coordinator where I kind of shadowed an assistant principal and learned a lot from them. And then a relieving opportunity came up. Was able to put my, you’ve got to put yourself out there.

Shannon:

Yeah. You do.

Sarah:

Say that you want to do leadership.

Siobhan:

Throw your hat in the ring.

Sarah:

Throw my hat in the ring. I was able to go for that which was really cool. And did that for a couple of years. And then kind of made the decision, 'Hey, I can't keep commuting to Sydney anymore. This is just a lot for me.'

Siobhan:

Mm-hmm.

Sarah:

Even though my school still is so fabulous. And I just decided, 'Hey, I'm going to try and get a permanent job where I live.'

Siobhan:

Closer to home.

Sarah:

Closer to home. Luckily, 10 minutes from home, which is so cool now.

Siobhan:

Oh, wonderful.

Sarah:

But yeah, so I applied for a couple of jobs, and went to interview, didn't get some, and that was fine, and got a few knock-backs. But eventually, I got one, and

Siobhan:

It's all part of the feedback process.

Sarah:

Yeah, totally. And I've never done it before because I had been so lucky to get that, I say lucky, but I worked hard.

Shannon:

You did.

Sarah:

I got the graduate position. So I hadn't really gone through the experience of applying for a job for a really long time.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

So, many years. And I was just like, 'Oh, this is, applying for a job's not fun.'

Siobhan:

Yeah, it's daunting.

Sarah:

But once you get there, yeah, it's amazing. So got that position. And yeah, so I've only been there a year now but loving it. And it's new challenges every day.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Definitely keeps you on your toes.

Siobhan:

Mm.

Sarah:

But it's so cool to lead a team and be able to be the support person for not just kids, but for other adults.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And having those tough conversations or being able to make change in the school is so special.

Shannon:

On a broader scale.

Sarah:

Totally.

Shannon:

As the teacher you've got your class, but then once you, if you choose to move into leadership, if it's for you, you kind of have more of an insight and you get to tap into wider school initiatives which is a really cool thing to do because you're reaching so many more students in your community.

Sarah:

Yeah, totally.

Shannon:

Do you have any opportunity within your assistant principal role, or you might have some on your team, where you mentor beginning teachers?

Sarah:

Yes, so at my previous school in particular, I kind of was able to do a role of kind of like early career teacher coordinator.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Which was really cool. So I helped a lot of teachers. And we had a lot of new grads come through because our school was just rapidly expanding. We were getting pretty much anyone out of uni that did a prac with us that was fabulous. We like nab them. So there was just like a lot of new grads coming through. So I kind of helped them through their accreditation process and just mentoring them through just having a very open classroom, being like, 'Come and watch me. Come and watch what I do.' Then we'll sit down together and you tell me what

Siobhan:

'Let's collaborate.'

Sarah:

Yeah, 'Let's collaborate, and I'll come watch you, and we'll give feedback.' And it was a very informal process.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And then we'd also reach out to other teachers who would like to be a mentor and a mentee.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Is that?

Shannon:

Yeah, yeah.

Sarah:

Mentos, no.

Shannon:

Are you trying to say we need one?

Sarah:

But yeah, it was just through that process was really special because I was able to, yeah, foster some relationships with people and just support them and be the person that maybe I felt like I didn't have, especially through uni.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

I think once I got to school. And you’ve got to put yourself out there sometimes as well and kind of like, a mentor might not necessarily swoop you up and take you, you might need to reach out. But once you have a good mentor, worth their weight in gold.

Shannon:

Oh.

Siobhan:

Yeah, for sure.

Sarah:

But sometimes you have to put yourself out there. And kinda say, 'Hey, I would really love, if for some reason your school doesn't have that kind of setup, someone to assist me.'

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

'And so I can come watch them and see what they do because I'm alone in this room with

Shannon:

It can be isolating, teaching.

Sarah:

30 kids, and this is new for me.'

Sarah:

Yeah, I just wanted to be that person for others.

Siobhan:

But it is possible, even you mentioned that the school sort of created this early career mentor model. But for those who might be at a school where that doesn't necessarily exist, you can always put your hand up for opportunities.

Sarah:

Totally.

Siobhan:

So you can supervise a pre-service teacher once you've gained your Proficient teacher accreditation and done a bit of training.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

So I would encourage our listeners, if that's something that they were interested in, definitely put your hand up for it or embed it as part of your PDP, to say that you want to support pre-service or beginning teachers.

Sarah:

Love that.

Siobhan:

Because it's a really good way to build capacity. But also, for me, when I was doing it, I found I liked the pressure that it was informal mentoring. I liked it. I didn't have this title of a mentor but I was doing it anyway and I really

Shannon:

And giving back also, I think, to your profession.

Siobhan:

And I really liked, I love when pre-service teachers come into my classroom, and go, 'Why did you do it that way?' And to me, that's the way I've always done X, Y, Z, but you have to actually stop and justify why you do it. And you can kind of see the strategy behind your teaching. And I think that that's something that really helps you grow as a teacher. So it might not just be about building capacity, but on a professional level, I think that supervising a pre-service teacher or mentoring a beginning teacher is so rewarding and one of the best things you can do for your career.

Sarah:

Reflective practice.

Siobhan:

Yeah, reflective practice.

Sarah:

It's so important, too, because sometimes you can kind of, like, if you don't have someone come and observe you or you're not observing others, you can kind of get like

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

There's so many different ways to do stuff.

Siobhan:

Correct, keep the door open.

Sarah:

Keep the door open.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

I think it teaches the on-class teacher so much about their own practice and themselves as a teacher, you kind of could see through a different lens, through different eyes.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Yeah, so I definitely found, I've only had two pre-service teachers work with me before, and they're both fabulous and have gone on to do great things.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

But yeah, it definitely opened my eyes to my own practice. And having someone go, 'You know what, why do you do that?' And you go, 'Oh, actually.'

Siobhan:

'Oh, I do it because...'

Sarah:

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, and it's cool to see them like

Siobhan:

Implement one of your strategies.

Sarah:

Or even just them do something, you're like, 'Oh, I didn't even think of that. Oh, that's really cool. And I'm going to steal that for my own

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Little toolbox.' But yeah, definitely. I love that, giving back to the community as well because you know as someone that's gone through uni and being taken on as a pre-service teacher and having someone that is all-in to helping you is so special.

Shannon:

And opened up their classroom to you. It's such a special thing to do. And I also think it can be found within your school, also.

Sarah:

Totally.

Shannon:

I know that when I was involved in beginning teacher mentorship at a school level, I was also like, open my classroom door. 'Come in. Let's team teach together. You want to learn more about science and technology? I'll run a lesson. Let's do it together.'

Sarah:

Yes, team teaching.

Shannon:

Yeah or like,

Sarah:

Yes, team teaching.

Shannon:

'I'll come to your classroom. Let's do something together.'

Sarah:

That's cool.

Shannon:

Let's negotiate our time or rearrange our RFF if you can with your exec team. And see if you can make it work. Because it can be really isolating where you're in your classroom by yourself with your students. And sometimes the best PL you'll ever have is the teacher next door.

Sarah:

Oh, I love that. Yeah, I think I shared that on my Instagram recently, and people were like, 'Yes.'

Siobhan:

Double-tap.

Sarah:

No, but it is.

Siobhan:

Repost.

Sarah:

And sometimes you,

Siobhan:

It's true.

Sarah:

You go, 'That's not the way I would do it.'

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And that's okay, too

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Because we all have different styles and things. So I think, yeah, like you said, it's so important to have that open if you can.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Have that open classroom or open mind to new things and just developing your own skills and not letting it get too stale. And yeah, like you said, it can feel isolating if you don't do that and you keep to yourself, and you're like, 'Oh, I don't want to do anything wrong.' It's like, 'Well, no, let's open it up to get constructive feedback on what you are doing and it may change your life. It may make your life much easier.' Yeah, actually. And even though it might be a bit awkward and you're like, 'Oh, I'm being watched.’ It's like, well, you're not. But you are, but you're not because for the one thing that they might nitpick, there's probably 30 things they took away from your class of how cool that is. And they're probably going to steal it and implement it in their own room.

Shannon:

And we always like to say between Siobhan and myself, 'One team, one dream.'

Sarah:

Oh, I love that.

Shannon:

At the department,

Sarah:

You're giving me lots of

Shannon:

We are. We're one team, one dream.

Sarah:

Quotes I'm going to steal.

Shannon:

But if you can go into someone's classroom and you can gather all these things that will help you that you'll bring back to your classroom, we're sharing the load between one another in the profession. And we have so many children that we want to sort of help provide the best education to.

Siobhan:

It's a common goal.

Sarah:

Yeah, it is a common goal.

Shannon:

That's where my ‘one team, one dream’ comes from.

Siobhan:

One team, one dream.

Sarah:

I know. It needs to be on a shirt.

Shannon:

Copyright Teach NSW.

Siobhan:

Trademark.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Shannon:

New department slogan.

Sarah:

Nice.

Shannon:

No, I love it. But in speaking to like sharing your insights, when you do mentor people at an assistant principal level, I'd love to hear about how you use your platform to sort of share that beyond your school?

Sarah:

Okay.

Shannon:

And how you use Instagram to do that?

Sarah:

Yes, I love Instagram. Yeah, I've got kind of a few platforms going now. So I started on Instagram, not by any means of, like, I want to get this many followers.

Siobhan:

Yeah, I want to be famous.

Sarah:

And I'm going to be famous.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

So I was just sharing on my normal, like my personal Instagram and just like classroom stuff. And I realised, I was like, 'I don't think anyone cares about it on here.'

Siobhan:

'I need my own separate space for this.'

Sarah:

Yeah, yeah. So one of my friends had actually sent me a couple of girls that she'd followed that had teacher fashion pages. And I was like, 'Oh, that's a cool thing.' I love that they shared that. And I was like, 'Maybe I should do like my own dedicated page to share what I'm doing in my room.' And I started out just this is before, like pre-stories even being a thing on Instagram.

Siobhan:

Or highlight reels.

Sarah:

Yeah, so I would share posts of like long-time, I don't know why people liked it, but they must have, like long-time lapses of me working pretty much in my classroom, before or after school, whether that was making resources, or putting up a display, or whatever it might be. And it seemed to really resonate with a lot of people, which was really cool. And then once stories became a thing, I kind of would talk to the camera and say like, 'This is kind of my plan for the day and what I'm going to do with my kids.' And I was so, and am still, but I was so excited about what each day would bring. And then I would kind of, in the afternoon, then share like, 'This was successful, or this wasn't successful.'

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Anyway, and started to build a bit of a community and I didn't realise it was a thing. And then people started, it became like a thing. And I think I was lucky enough to be one of the earlier starters

Siobhan:

Teachergram.

Sarah:

of the teachergram. And I ended up building quite a big network of like-minded people, which was really, really cool. And it was beyond the classroom and kind of building what I was so craving, which was having teacher friends. Having someone to reach out to and ask questions and stuff.

Shannon:

Even just to bounce off.

Sarah:

To bounce off.

Siobhan:

You mentioned no one in your family, you didn't really have

Sarah:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

So I have to turn somewhere else.

Sarah:

Yeah, it was just nice to what I was craving in uni of having those connections with teachers that were in the profession, in the classroom, that I could reach out to and/or sneakily get ideas from them without having to ask questions.

Shannon:

Yeah. Spark creativity, yeah.

Sarah:

Because sometimes it's a bit daunting to have to ask, 'You know what, I don't know this. Is that embarrassing that I don't know that?'

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

'I can look it up.'

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And it was like in an informal visual way where it was very easy to understand and adapt.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

So parlayed into YouTube as well because I was sharing, I kind of couldn't share maybe everything that I wanted to share on Instagram. I wanted to do these big long-form videos.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And over the years, it's become more about my lifestyle.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And people wanted to know more about not just what I was doing in the classroom, but what I was doing outside the classroom.

Shannon:

Yeah, you as a person.

Sarah:

Yeah, me as a person. Who are either a similar age or going through a similar life stage or whatever. And I ended up, yeah, now I share a lot about what I do outside of school.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And people are interested in that because everyone is striving for that work-life balance. And I think that I, not that I do it well all the time by any means, but teaching, whilst it is my job and a good chunk of my personality, it can't be my whole being. So I think as teachers, sometimes we do, we're just like, that is our whole personality.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And that's all we do and all we live and breathe because we are so passionate.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Siobhan:

A personal struggle of mine in my first two years was I didn't really know myself outside of teaching. I would introduce myself, 'Hi, I'm Siobhan. I'm a high school teacher.'

Sarah:

Yeah. 'And that is my whole entire personality, what else do you want to know about me.'

Siobhan:

Yeah. And I think that that's really important to, and it comes with time, to grow and find who you are outside of teaching. Because it's just as important. You can be your best self, still be a great teacher, but also have, it's not that I didn't have passions, and hobbies or whatever. It's just like I felt that that was the most important part about me,

Sarah:

Okay.

Siobhan:

Being a teacher. And I think that that's something that people might resonate with. It's exciting to be a teacher.

Sarah:

Of course, it is.

Siobhan:

That's part of my identity and who I am, but finding and striking that balance between who you are in a school and a working environment versus who you are outside in your personal life is really important.

Sarah:

Yeah. Yeah.

Siobhan:

Do you have any advice in sort of like how to?

Sarah:

Yeah. I think do things that make you feel good.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

I don't know. I think a big part of me striking that balance was moving back home, being a lot closer. Not that I wasn't able to do it at school it just sort of looked a bit different when I was commuting. But gaining back those hours either side of school was really important for me because I was able to do the things that I love, like with those creative outlets. Being able to go back to doing dance classes and singing and creating content and things. That is a part, that kind of forms my whole personality and

Shannon:

And that fills your cup.

Sarah:

It fills my cup. Fills my cup. And spending time with my family. And I share a lot on socials around my life with my husband and my family, and looking after my niece, and renovating our house and when I got married, like sharing my wedding.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And just all those different things that make up a human.

Shannon and Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

I know the name is Teacher Is Happy, but it's making up a, that's not my whole personality.

Siobhan:

Sarah is happy.

Sarah:

Yeah. Maybe I'll have a name change down the line.

Shannon:

Rebrand.

Sarah:

Rebrand. But yeah, just knowing that whilst teaching is a really big chunk of my personality and my life and my everyday, it can't be my whole

Siobhan:

That's right.

Sarah:

Existence, because that's not, it's just not sustainable.

Siobhan:

Mm.

Sarah:

So, and I think for a number of years, especially my first few years, I was living in a very unsustainable way where, just because I was so keen and so passionate, I was just like throwing it all in.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And because I was just so eager to learn. And I think kind of as time's gone on and I've done leadership roles and stuff, I've understood more the importance of having a work-life balance and being able to be a human that can switch off and go, 'You know what? Today was really hard.' Or, 'Today was fabulous.' And not just then talking about it all the time.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And staying up at night, thinking about what are you going to do the next day for school? And just having some other outlets in your life is so important.

Shannon:

And those lessons.

Sarah:

For your mental and physical health as well.

Shannon:

Uh-huh, absolutely.

Sarah:

Dancing is for my, it's for my mental and physical health. Being able to just get out there and just, like I do this very embarrassing dance class in the dark. It's not like when you,

Siobhan:

That's cool.

Sarah:

I don't know, we're younger and do it. It's like so fun.

Shannon:

It's like me learning off YouTube. That's what it's sounding like.

Sarah:

Yes, yes, I know. And we're all just like so tragic and going, and we're all just like a sweaty mess after. But it's so important to do stuff like that because it does, it fills your cup and it makes you a better teacher.

Siobhan:

Mm.

Sarah:

Because you can go in the next day and be like, 'Hey, I'm refreshed. I did something good for me.' And the kids, you're modelling

Siobhan:

That's right.

Sarah:

A positive lifestyle for kids as well.

Shannon and Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Because a lot of kids these days put a lot of pressure on themselves as well to be

Shannon:

Absolutely. To academically achieve.

Sarah:

Academically achieve. And you need to show that you've got to be a human, too. I can't work all the time and I can't be available all the time for school. Just like you

Siobhan:

Nor should you be.

Sarah:

Nor should you be. Just like kids can't work all day at school and then also do

Shannon:

Go home and work all day.

Sarah:

It's not possible. It's just you've got to, it's important to model that balanced lifestyle for them as well. Because you're sometimes their biggest role, one of their biggest role models.

Shannon:

Oh, absolutely.

Sarah:

Sometimes their biggest role model because you see them so often.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And I think it's important to model not always being the best at stuff. I think kids don't need to see people that are the best at stuff all the time.

Shannon:

That's right.

Siobhan:

Yeah.

Sarah:

It's like when you go, I don't know, I think every teacher does it, and they go to draw something on the board, and they're like

Siobhan:

'Now, I'm not an artist.'

Sarah:

'I'm not an artist. I'm not an artist.'

Siobhan:

Disclaimer.

Sarah:

Yeah, disclaimer. And it's like, well, yeah, of course you're not because you are all these other things. But I think it's important that kids can know like, you don't have to give a disclaimer for everything and you don't have to just not do something because you're not the best at it. I think it's important to

Shannon:

Have a go.

Sarah:

Have a go and model that you can have a go as well, and you don't know everything because you can't possibly.

Shannon:

Yeah. But I really like how you talk about your experiences. And now that you are in leadership, I can see that you've obviously reflected on your early years. And that would be something that you are quite open about and sharing with beginning teachers. And that's part of why it's important to have people like you on the podcast. Just sort of sharing your experiences with people who are maybe at university, thinking about teaching.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Career changers even. These points are really valid. And we all learn from our own experiences. And I think having a platform to share that is really valuable for people going into teaching. So thank you for sharing.

Sarah:

And if anyone has any questions, please just DM me, like ask, because I'm always open to, yeah, sharing my experience, or I don't know.

Siobhan:

And supporting.

Sarah:

Some people ask me some really curly questions and I don't have the answer, but

Siobhan:

I'll take that on notice, please. I'll get back to you.

Sarah:

I'll always have a try. And yeah, I just think it's so important. Like you said, it's a teamwork thing. We've all got to lift each other because teaching's hard and complex and challenging. And some people might, you might think, 'Oh, no one's ever experienced this hard thing that I'm doing. This is so complex.' And someone has, and this is how they navigated it, and it might give you ideas about how to navigate it as well. So yeah, I think it's important to have different networks as well. You've got your school network, but reaching out to other people within your community

Shannon:

Absolutely.

Sarah:

And other schools in your community that might be going through a similar thing or, yeah, it's so important to all work together.

Shannon:

Hmm, I agree. We've touched on some fantastic department resources in the sense of network speaking.

Sarah:

Mm-hmm.

Shannon:

We talked in a previous episode about Statewide Staffrooms. How you can join on Microsoft Teams.

Sarah:

Yeah, it's so great.

Shannon:

And other teachers share resources on there and opportunities. And I think that's a really good department platform that people can go to, to access

Sarah:

Yeah, totally.

Shannon:

And sort of seek advice from literacy or numeracy leads as well, which is really, really cool.

Sarah:

But I think over time, I now can determine whether a resource is actually valuable or not.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Sarah:

But sometimes it's easy to get bogged down in like, oh, that was so, that looked cool.

Siobhan:

Mm.

Sarah:

But maybe it's got nothing to do with your context and stuff. So I think, yeah, just discern what's actually good and helpful and what you can see and pass by.

Shannon:

Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Sarah, for joining us on the Teach NSW Podcast couch tonight. We've loved having you and I think some really valuable points for pre-service, beginning teachers, people who are thinking of going into teaching, career changers, anyone and everyone who's thinking about teaching, even current teachers.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Yeah, thank you so much for your time.

Siobhan:

Yeah, if you liked this episode, tell all your friends, tell all your family, tell your teacher pals.

Shannon:

Maybe the dogs, the cats.

Siobhan:

Yeah. Tell everyone you know. And if you'd like to find Sarah on socials, it's @teacherishappy. Is that correct?

Sarah:

That's it.

Siobhan:

Yeah, like she said, she's always keen for people to reach out if you need a helping hand. So thank you so much for your, yeah, thank you for your generosity and for your time today.

Sarah:

Thank you for having me.

Siobhan:

We will catch you on the next episode. Until then, see you later. Bye.

Shannon:

Thank you for tuning into the Teach NSW Podcast where we explore the dynamic world of education. Don't forget to follow, like, and subscribe to be notified when new episodes become available. You can find us on social media via our handle, @TeachNSW. Until next time, keep learning, keep teaching, and keep making a difference. The Teach NSW Podcast is a podcast (school bell ringing) by the Teach NSW team from the NSW Department of Education.